Re: [dev1064] Job Adjustments: Weapon Skills

[Neisan_Quetz]

Did you really just skim over the part where StarDiver beats it outside Abyssea as well, on fodder and harder mobs?

[Ophannus]

Except it really doesnt. Stardiver doing 700-1200ish in VW, Drakes still doing around 800-1500.
Compared to:
Ukko-2800-5300
VS-3400ish
Hi-1400-2400
Shoha-2800-4k
Fudo-2-4k
CDC-900-2200

These are number I saw when doing Jeuno VW T1-3 last night. I'm not really sure why Drakes is pulling ahead, I guess I need more Attack or something. This is w/e food but with Stalwarts. The damage I posted of other WS, the Ukon WAR wasn't eating Food and neither was the SAM or MNK(Buns are 130-150k/stack on my server so most ppl gimp it with just Stalwarts)

[Greatguardian]

Blade: Hi beating Drakes/SD on Voidwatch mobs?

Something is wrong somewhere. Were you using an OAT PLM or something with lower base damage / higher Ws frequency? What did the overall parse look like?

SAM beating out DRG is pretty obvious, though. The issue in question was SAM using Stardrrrrrrrriver over Shoha when you have the attack for it.

[Ophannus]

Lower base damage doesn't mean much on WS with such a high WSC or in situations where pDIF isn't capped, like on VWNMs. My Stardiver set ain't no joke either, though I could use Orgier's Pants for that WS Damage+3%.

[Motenten]

So basically, if drakes NEVER crits, then SD / Shoha wins huh.

Considering that the strongest part of that WS is it's criticals, that's kinda besides the point isn't it.

No. Drakes matches Stardiver at (for the config I have set up) 43% crit rate. That's capped dDex crit rate plus merits plus 10% base weaponskill crit rate at 100 TP plus ~8% extra percent (gear and/or higher TP).

RR atma in Abyssea puts you at ~55% crit rate before figuring the weaponskill itself and the crit hit damage on top of that, so certainly Drakes wins there. Outside Abyssea, that's rather more difficult to achieve.

If you look purely at total fTP, Drakes is about 4.1 or 4.2 (gorget or gorget+belt) while Stardiver is about 0.95*4 = 3.8, maybe 3.88 with some extra TP. That puts Drakes 6%-10% ahead of Stardiver. On the other hand, Stardiver gets 100% str mod vs Drakes' 50%, which you can expect to yield roughly a 35% lead in total base damage. Drakes gets crits, but also gets attack penalty, and that's not an easy total effect to throw a number at, but overall it should be easily clear that Stardiver 'should' be stronger most of the time, and that you would need a pretty decent crit rate for Drakes to overtake it.


Shoha wins over Stardiver at less than 1.65 cRatio. I would expect it to similarly win over Drakes when under some cRatio value, though the exact value would depend on overall crit rate and such on Drakes. From the above, if you're at 43% crit rate than Shoha should win if cRatio is 1.65 or less, though the comparison of crit rate to attack bonus makes things a bit fuzzy.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

It would be nice if they went back through and re-imagined all the weapon skills a bit (some are fine for what they are - like Wasp Sting or Energy Drain). Maybe some animation revamps, but some need modifier rethinks... especially in the case of Relic weapon skills. I think that the Relic weapons need a rethink period, but that's not really for this thread.