Victory smite nerf [dev1064]

[MarkovChain]

From the "testing in progress" section

[dev1064] Job Adjustments: Weapon Skills

TP critical hit bonuses for the weapon skills “Ukko’s Fury” and “Victory Smite” will be lowered.

lool PUP nerf.

[Dfoley]

Being as stringing pummel was already better, I fail to see this as a lool pup nerf.

[Zhronne]

Being as stringing pummel was already better, I fail to see this as a lool pup nerf.

^ this.

Ukko's nerf is only right. I mean... that WS gets +80% crit at 300TP, one may wonder what the hell SE were smoking when they decided stats for Ukko.
Nerfing it a bit means making so it's not as broken as now, it doesn't mean to make Ukko's useless... it should be a reasonable nerf, not too big not too small.
One could argue about nerfing it one year too late, and I would agree with that. If you let so much time pass before you acknowledge something is "seriously broken" then you might as well leave things as they are and try to address the issue in some other way.

As for Victory Smite I'm not sure. I mean, the WS is surely brilliant and one of the best, probably the second best after Ukko's (but there still is a big difference between Ukko and Vsmite...), but it shows its limits when outside Abyssea. On tough stuff it's not really that awesome unless you got Impetus up and with a decent amount charged up.
I don't know Vsmite's exact TP>Crit values, but I always thought it was assumed to have the same ones as Blade: Hi?
That would mean 100%>15%crit, 200%>20%crit, 300>25%crit.
Doesn't seem particularly unbalanced to me.
If they want to nerf Vsmite I hope the % of the nerf won't be bigger than 5%, so to say 10%>15%>20% for 100, 200 and 300 TP respectively.

What really annoys me about this is not the nerf itself, but rather:
1) the fact this comes way too late
2) the fact I had already ruled Shijin Spiral out in favour of other WSs, now I'm back to square one because Shijin Spiral is definitely becoming the best MNK WS, even for people with Verethragna, and I really don't like the idea of gathering countless +DEX gear, stressing my limited inventory space even more and forcing me to give up one of the 3 WSs I learned. But yeah, Shijin and Vsmite are so close atm (outside Abyssea) that even a 1% nerf would make Shijin win over Vsmite, and we all know it won't be just 1%. Sigh...

[MarkovChain]

Being as stringing pummel was already better, I fail to see this as a lool pup nerf.

Random statement is random ? Victory smite is much better than stringing pummel.

Let's say you got 170str on VS and SP

Global WSD - without da/ta
VS=6.35*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.6*150) )=1191.89500
SP=5.85*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.32*150)+0.32*80 )=1011.114000
Globald WSD wih 21%DA 3% TA
VS=(3.35*(1+0.03+(1-0.03)*0.21)+3)*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.6*170) )=1338.844391
SP=(1.85*(1+0.03+(1-0.03)*0.21)+4)*( floor(430*0.11)+3+12+39+ 0.85*(0.32*170)+0.32*80 )=1085.840510

Do you still fail to see why it's a PUP nerf ? Shijin is now probably better for monk only cos they can use spharai. The only option for pup is to use the mythic which is not better than empy anyway !

[xbobx]

Pummel is more or less on par with VS, Shijin is more or less on par if not better then Pummel outside of Abyessa. This is probably SE's stupid response to peoples negative comments to the new weaponskills.

When people don't want upgrade, nerf the better ws .

[Zhronne]

Random statement is random ? Victory smite is much better than stringing pummel.

I'm allergic to math so I don't want to claim anything, but the same thing was discussed a while ago on PUP forums and you can read it HERE
There result were that if not accounting for aftermath, Stringing Pummel should be slightly better than Vsmite, altough the difference wasn't particularly noticeable.

And I still don't get what you're trying to say with your "lolpupnerf".
It's a nerf to Victory Smite, not to MNK and not to PUP.
The only thing that's going to change is the current balance between Shijin Spiral and the other two WSs.
Currently Shijin Spiral was very close to Vsmite, slightly behind I'd say, not worth for Verethragna users, but worth for Spharai users since they don't get Vsmite and Final Heaven sux balls.
Still, Shijin was very close to Vsmite even for Vere users.
If they're nerfing Vsmite, it means that the small gap between Shijin and Vsmite will close, and the first will be able to get ahead of the second in every possible situation (outside of Aby), even for Verethragna users.

Which brings us to the point that after this nerf *every monk* will be expected to get and use Shijin Spiral in place of any other WS, period.

I still don't get how all of this relates to what you were attempting to say about PUP.

[Atoreis]

I'm allergic to math so I don't want to claim anything, but the same thing was discussed a while ago on PUP forums and you can read it HERE
There result were that if not accounting for aftermath, Stringing Pummel should be slightly better than Vsmite, altough the difference wasn't particularly noticeable.

And I still don't get what you're trying to say with your "lolpupnerf".
It's a nerf to Victory Smite, not to MNK and not to PUP.
The only thing that's going to change is the current balance between Shijin Spiral and the other two WSs.
Currently Shijin Spiral was very close to Vsmite, slightly behind I'd say, not worth for Verethragna users, but worth for Spharai users since they don't get Vsmite and Final Heaven sux balls.
Still, Shijin was very close to Vsmite even for Vere users.
If they're nerfing Vsmite, it means that the small gap between Shijin and Vsmite will close, and the first will be able to get ahead of the second in every possible situation (outside of Aby), even for Verethragna users.

Which brings us to the point that after this nerf *every monk* will be expected to get and use Shijin Spiral in place of any other WS, period.

I still don't get how all of this relates to what you were attempting to say about PUP.

I can explain this to you.
He has Spharai, he trying to be smart and make fun with "Verethragna only" mnks because they are not true MNKs with both weapons like he is.

[Spiritreaver]

From the "testing in progress" section



lool PUP nerf.

As said, your flat wrong.

Personally i'm much more concerned about my MNK after hearing this news.

[Dfoley]

I can explain this to you.
He has Spharai, he trying to be smart and make fun with "Verethragna only" mnks because they are not true MNKs with both weapons like he is.

I see, one of those lol-oldschoolers who qq'ed VS was better than their Final Heaven?

If nothing else, this is a monk nerf way more than a pup, because it makes SP even better than VS instead of just marginally better (read old threads instead of your lol-math), which means mnks have to use SS / Assurans fist, while pups can continue using a ws that was already better then the monk available ones. Not to mention pups have access to SS as well.

How do you not see this a monk nerf WAY more than a PUP?

[MarkovChain]

I'm allergic to math so I don't want to claim anything, but the same thing was discussed a while ago on PUP forums and you can read it HERE
There result were that if not accounting for aftermath, Stringing Pummel should be slightly better than Vsmite, altough the difference wasn't particularly noticeable.

And I still don't get what you're trying to say with your "lolpupnerf".
It's a nerf to Victory Smite, not to MNK and not to PUP.
The only thing that's going to change is the current balance between Shijin Spiral and the other two WSs.
Currently Shijin Spiral was very close to Vsmite, slightly behind I'd say, not worth for Verethragna users, but worth for Spharai users since they don't get Vsmite and Final Heaven sux balls.
Still, Shijin was very close to Vsmite even for Vere users.
If they're nerfing Vsmite, it means that the small gap between Shijin and Vsmite will close, and the first will be able to get ahead of the second in every possible situation (outside of Aby), even for Verethragna users.

Which brings us to the point that after this nerf *every monk* will be expected to get and use Shijin Spiral in place of any other WS, period.

I still don't get how all of this relates to what you were attempting to say about PUP.

Verethragna is still best used with victory smite, stop with you false assumptions. ODD is what makes it worth it. If your best weapon is verethragna, nothing happened wether you are monk or pup, however, with dynamis II, and level increase, aspharai becomes a realistic option that is only given to monk, and due to Shijin Spiral study, it's clear that this WS only doesn't suck with spharai. In other word :

prior to today : best PUP weapon and WS is verethragna/VS
today : best PUP weapon and WS is verethragna/VS with -10% damage

prior to today : best MNK weapon and WS is spharai/SS
today : best MNK weapon and WS is spharai/SS with -0% damage

It's a PUP nerf.