More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

[Francisco]

This is complete and utter rubbish.

Buff the other jobs, and make the new weaponskills worth a damn if you want your precious balance.

I'm about done with playing in Tanaka's Nerf Circus Balancing Act.

The game has been garbage since they pulled him from FFXIV and refocused him on FFXI.

Camate - if you read this, could you please let Mr. Tanaka know how hated he is - and make sure to go over his head and let his bosses know to? Thanks.

[Brolic]

how are the jp's reacting to this?

[Theytak]

As a war, I am a bit saddened that they're taking out the juicy part of blood rage, but honestly, even without the crit damage boost, only having the crit rate boost won't suddenly make it a worthless JA. It'll still be stronger than warcry raging rush/ukko's/lolrampage. It just means that we'll go back to using warcry for non crit ws, and during mighty strikes.

But I think you guys are reading way to heavily into the proposed changes for VS and Ukko's...

TP critical hit bonuses for the weapon skills “Ukko’s Fury” and “Victory Smite” will be lowered.

They're not changing the 60% Str mod on either WS. They're not changing the incredibly high (for multi-hit crit ws) fTP values. They're just lowering the incredibly high crit rate.

at 100% TP, Ukko's Fury has a 30% crit rate, before any crit rate from merits/dDex/gear/crit evasion debuffs/atma. I haven't seen any concrete testing for VS, but I would assume it's about the same based on its general level of strength. Comparatively, Chant du Cygne, Blade: Hi, and Jishnu's Radiance all have 15% crit rates at 100% TP.

Honestly, they're probably just going to reduce VS/ukko's crit rates to be more in line with the other empy ws. Yes, that will mean they won't be as strong vs high defense mobs, but prior to empy ws, multi-hit crit ws were almost never a great choice vs high defense mobs anyway.

Does this mean we're going to see a sam nerf, though? Not a chance in hell. If anything, while they're going around, taking back all the nice new toys they gave out post 75, they'll probably give half of them to sam.

[Insaniac]

It is really strange. It's like Tanaka is trying to put things back the way they were at the 75 cap. With AH SAMs performing on par with Relic DDs. All you need is some STR gear a TP bonus GK and 5/5 Shoha and you are gonna parse at the top every time. You don't even need a good TP set because of 70tp return WSs and constant wings in VW. The trade off for being able to WS as much as a SAM should be weaker WSs. SAMs also have insanely powerful native JAs and a degree of survivability but I guess they rationalize that by making most of them subable. How else do you rationalize the same job getting Hasso(and Zanhasso), Seigan, 3rd Eye, Meditate, Overwhelm, Sekkanoki, Store TP, Konzen-ittai, Hagakure AND a beastly non-relic/emp/mythic WS.

[Puck]

how are the jp's reacting to this?

Either they don't care much or their forums are much less active than ours. Poking around the JP WAR, MNK, and general sections, I don't see any reactions to the upcoming nerfs.

[Runespider]

It is really strange. It's like Tanaka is trying to put things back the way they were at the 75 cap. With AH SAMs performing on par with Relic DDs.

I still feel some rage about when I finally finished my relic and AH sams were doing the same kind of numbers (and frequently more) than I was pulling off. I had all the best gear at the time too, which made it even more dissapointing.

Ultimately I think Ukkos will become almost identical to Raging rush in terms of damage. This will go across the board to all emp/relic/mythic ws too, when he says balance he really means it.

[saevel]

As a war, I am a bit saddened that they're taking out the juicy part of blood rage, but honestly, even without the crit damage boost, only having the crit rate boost won't suddenly make it a worthless JA. It'll still be stronger than warcry raging rush/ukko's/lolrampage. It just means that we'll go back to using warcry for non crit ws, and during mighty strikes.

But I think you guys are reading way to heavily into the proposed changes for VS and Ukko's...



They're not changing the 60% Str mod on either WS. They're not changing the incredibly high (for multi-hit crit ws) fTP values. They're just lowering the incredibly high crit rate.

at 100% TP, Ukko's Fury has a 30% crit rate, before any crit rate from merits/dDex/gear/crit evasion debuffs/atma. I haven't seen any concrete testing for VS, but I would assume it's about the same based on its general level of strength. Comparatively, Chant du Cygne, Blade: Hi, and Jishnu's Radiance all have 15% crit rates at 100% TP.

Honestly, they're probably just going to reduce VS/ukko's crit rates to be more in line with the other empy ws. Yes, that will mean they won't be as strong vs high defense mobs, but prior to empy ws, multi-hit crit ws were almost never a great choice vs high defense mobs anyway.

Does this mean we're going to see a sam nerf, though? Not a chance in hell. If anything, while they're going around, taking back all the nice new toys they gave out post 75, they'll probably give half of them to sam.

One year ago I would of agree with you. At face value this update won't unseat either WAR nor MNK as the super DD's they are. But this is Tanaka we're talking about, the guy who trolled EVERYONE with -attack weapon skills. For all we know they could change Ukon and VS to have -15% crit rate at 100% TP. They are that stupid.

[Theytak]

Either they don't care much or their forums are much less active than ours. Poking around the JP WAR, MNK, and general sections, I don't see any reactions to the upcoming nerfs.

To be fair, it's what? 2am JP time? The NA forums completely die after midnight, so it wouldn't be surprising if the JP forums are the same way

One year ago I would of agree with you. At face value this update won't unseat either WAR nor MNK as the super DD's they are. But this is Tanaka we're talking about, the guy who trolled EVERYONE with -attack weapon skills. For all we know they could change Ukon and VS to have -15% crit rate at 100% TP. They are that stupid.

People seriously need to stop all the useless tanaka bashing. It's not productive and I have yet to hear or see convincing evidence that tanaka is the one sole reason why this stuff happens. Is he related? yes. Is he the only person to blame? Absolutely not.

[scaevola]

One year ago I would of agree with you. At face value this update won't unseat either WAR nor MNK as the super DD's they are. But this is Tanaka we're talking about, the guy who trolled EVERYONE with -attack weapon skills. For all we know they could change Ukon and VS to have -15% crit rate at 100% TP. They are that stupid.

Assume for the sake of argument, if you would for a moment, that WAR needs to be nerfed. In return, I will assume that the FFXI devs have a proven track record of poor balancing decisions.

For one thing, is this proven track record not the reason why the nerf is necessary to begin with? The devs gave WAR a weapon skill that's too powerful, and are correcting it (though they probably could have picked a better time to do so). For another, if it needs to be nerfed, is a fear of overcorrection really a reason to not go ahead with it? If WARs get nerfed too much, they can be re-buffed.

I am a Victory Smite MNK, and I have no problem admitting the weapon skill makes my MNK too powerful relative to my other jobs for the interests of balanced content that could be challenging but doable for skilled players in a variety of jobs. A new Voidwatch update comes out and people are pug-farming the new bosses within a day, but when SE starts doing the exact sort of thing it needs to to actually find some middle ground between Day-1-Botulus-Rex and Absolute Virtue in 2005, the forums get an aneurysm.

Pretty funny, really.

[Zumi]

This war and mnk nerfs are incredibly stupid. These weapon skills have been in the game for over a year and nothing was changed about them. If you thought they were too powerful should of been changed much sooner not over a year later since they have been out. Players who have spent tons of time getting these weapons and may have spent millions of gil buying trail items are having their work marginalized. Its a big screw you to players who may have got a 95 version of either of these weapons and a lot of wasted time and resources.

Nerfing everything down so its the same as level 60 ws is just a stupid idea. Its not they way to go.

This is the wrong way to balance the game. There is no doubt these weapons skills were good. But the better solution is to buff the other ones to bring them up to the level of ukko and vs not nerf players. Nerfing a select few jobs just pisses off the playerbase who use these jobs its not fun to log in and have your character be much weaker as a result of a nerf especially when its something you have had for over a year.