requiescat elements: Help ( it has WS elements)

[Karbuncle]

It does bonus damage to cerberus type mobs. KTHXBI

Prove it.

mmkay

[Theytak]

It does extra fail to cerberus type mobs. KTHXBI

fixed that for you.

[Martel]

Magical Non-Elemental vs Physical Non-Elemental

Only difference is MDT vs PDT effects

Spirits Within / Atonement is just Magical Non-Elemental. Anything that gives MDT will block those. Req is apparently Physical Non-Elemental, something that players didn't have access too until just now. Anything that gives -PDT will block Req. Go fight a PLD monster and have it Invincible then Req on it, 0 damage.

1: MDT won't affect Spirits Within or Atonement. MDT/MDB has no effect on them.

These WS, along with Chi Blast, are spirit dmg. Which is just a name I suppose. You could call it non-elemental Magic dmg, But it doesn't act like normal magic dmg. They're lacking the normal modifiers. Just about the only things that affect their dmg would be, Rampart, magic shield, and mob DMG type weakness/resist(Cerberus types take x2 dmg. Every NM since VNMs take half... -.-).

2:Requiescat goes right through invincible. It's also very likely that it'll ignore PDT and sentinel as well, but I haven't tested those as of yet. Also interested to see if it bypasses Physical shield. Needs tests.

[Theytak]

Spirits Within, Atonement, and Chi Blast are all in the same quasi-category as breath damage; they're not breath damage themselves, though spirits within is, basically, since almost universally breath damage is based on HP, but just about everything that resists breath damage specifically resists SW/Atonement/Chi Blast as well. I don't know/remember/care if anyone ever figured out whether the two damage types are distinct from one another, but basically, breath damage ignores MDB, and is a unique damage category. Honestly, the easiest way to figure out wtf requiescat does is to go find one of the thousand NMs that make SW/atonement/chiblast utterly useless (IE: I've yet to do a 11~12 boost chi blast against an abyssean NM and break 100 damage), and see if requiescat does even less damage than usual. If it doesn't, than it's a new, unique category unto itself.

[Martel]

Atonement/spirits certainly are not breath type DMG. Hp modification aside, Breath dmg is subject to a magic acc check. Failing results in resists. 1/2, 1/4 and so on.

While mobs can have a static dmg reduction(rather misleadingly called resistance) against spirit DMG type , there's not a magic acc check, and normal magic resists do not occur.

The difference fairly clearly indicates a different dmg class than breaths.

[Theytak]

Atonement/spirits certainly are not breath type DMG. Hp modification aside, Breath dmg is subject to a magic acc check. Failing results in resists. 1/2, 1/4 and so on.

While mobs can have a static dmg reduction(rather misleadingly called resistance) against spirit DMG type , there's not a magic acc check, and normal magic resists do not occur.

The difference fairly clearly indicates a different dmg class than breaths.

yea, I think my brain shut off halfway through whatever point I was trying to make

[Martel]

However, the idea of testing Requiescat on mobs that resist atonement is not a bad idea. The result could make a very clear distinction between the two.

I was out in abyssea kon as I was reading this thread, so I did a quick test.

T1 VNM, meanderer.

Atonement, 300% TP. Capped Hate.

375 DMG. Or a 50% reduction.

Requiescat: 900~1,500.
Had cruor buffs, But not DD atmas. (was playing with max possible DE+Holy II dmg ^^)
Just used my Chant set for ws.

For perspective, I used it a few times on the nearby gneiss leeches.
Gneiss leech + Req:1k~1.6k dmg.

Doesn't seem like req is dealing half dmg. So While It may be Non-Elemental DMG, it's clearly in a different class than Atonement.

[saevel]

1: MDT won't affect Spirits Within or Atonement. MDT/MDB has no effect on them.

These WS, along with Chi Blast, are spirit dmg. Which is just a name I suppose. You could call it non-elemental Magic dmg, But it doesn't act like normal magic dmg. They're lacking the normal modifiers. Just about the only things that affect their dmg would be, Rampart, magic shield, and mob DMG type weakness/resist(Cerberus types take x2 dmg. Every NM since VNMs take half... -.-).

2:Requiescat goes right through invincible. It's also very likely that it'll ignore PDT and sentinel as well, but I haven't tested those as of yet. Also interested to see if it bypasses Physical shield. Needs tests.

Wrong, MDT =/= MAB/MDB.

Magic Defense Bonus only applies to MAB calculations, SWI / Atonement do not use MAB and this MDB has to effect. Magic Damage Take, aka MDT is a percentage reduction (or enhancement for some) on all magic damage taken. Magic Shield is 100% resistance to all magic type effects, both damage and status effects.

SWI / Atonement both are effected by MDT and Magic Shield, PDT and Physical Shield have no effect on them. Req isn't effected by Magic Shield nor MDT, it's not magic damage. It even stacks with Sneak Attack, the universally accepted litmus test for Physical vs Magical based WS.

On the test server I used Req on a PLD mob that had 2hr'd, it did 0 damage. Please feel free to test it again on a Invincible'd monster. Or go one step further, fight a Hydra NM, there are plenty in Abyssea, and wait for it to use Pyric / Polar Bulwark. Under Polar Bulwark it's immune to magic damage, so use Req and see if it does 0 damage. Under Pyric Bulwark (immune to physical damage) do the same. Based on it doing 0 to a PLD under Invincible, I'm fairly confident that it'll do 0 to the Hydra under Pyric Bulwark and regular damage under Polar Bulwark.

Now on that note.

Is there something wrong with your brain? I'm really getting tired of people trying to compare a physical WS to SWI / Atonement, both of which are magical WS. Just because there has never been a physical WS without a damage type set to Piercing / Slashing / Blunt you think it must therefor be magical. That is illogical, its a four hit (five with DW) attack with an -20% attack penalty. You can NEVER *miss* a magic WS but you can miss hits on Req. It use's the standard physical WS damage formula. The only thing different from this and vorpal is that vorpal is slashing damage and Req is non-specific, aka *non-elemental* in SE speak. Meaning it will ignore any monster specific damage resistances.

[Martel]

Wrong, MDT =/= MAB/MDB.

Magic Defense Bonus only applies to MAB calculations, SWI / Atonement do not use MAB and this MDB has to effect. Magic Damage Take, aka MDT is a percentage reduction (or enhancement for some) on all magic damage taken. Magic Shield is 100% resistance to all magic type effects, both damage and status effects.

SWI / Atonement both are effected by MDT and Magic Shield, PDT and Physical Shield have no effect on them. Req isn't effected by Magic Shield nor MDT, it's not magic damage. It even stacks with Sneak Attack, the universally accepted litmus test for Physical vs Magical based WS.

There's no need to explain the difference between MDT and MDB. I'm aware.

But my statement still stands true.

MDB has no effect on atonement. Like you said, cause there's no MAB check.

But MDT also has no effect Atonement. Else every mage mob casting shell would have gimped its dmg.

I've seen this time and time again. A mob putting up shell will not reduce atonement DMG.

No objections to the remaining statements in this quote.

On the test server I used Req on a PLD mob that had 2hr'd, it did 0 damage. Please feel free to test it again on a Invincible'd monster. Or go one step further, fight a Hydra NM, there are plenty in Abyssea, and wait for it to use Pyric / Polar Bulwark. Under Polar Bulwark it's immune to magic damage, so use Req and see if it does 0 damage. Under Pyric Bulwark (immune to physical damage) do the same. Based on it doing 0 to a PLD under Invincible, I'm fairly confident that it'll do 0 to the Hydra under Pyric Bulwark and regular damage under Polar Bulwark.

I have tested Req vs invincible. DMG was dealt. This was on the normal servers, so perhaps that accounts for the difference. I guess I should have screen shotted that..

I haven't tested physical shield as of yet. Hadn't had any business near hydras lately.

Now on that note.

Is there something wrong with your brain? I'm really getting tired of people trying to compare a physical WS to SWI / Atonement, both of which are magical WS. Just because there has never been a physical WS without a damage type set to Piercing / Slashing / Blunt you think it must therefor be magical. That is illogical, its a four hit (five with DW) attack with an -20% attack penalty. You can NEVER *miss* a magic WS but you can miss hits on Req. It use's the standard physical WS damage formula. The only thing different from this and vorpal is that vorpal is slashing damage and Req is non-specific, aka *non-elemental* in SE speak. Meaning it will ignore any monster specific damage resistances.

If this bit wasn't directed at me, ignore the following.

I never claimed Req was magical. I only did the atonement test cause Theytak brought it up and I wanted to offer evidence that they weren't the same.

I guess I should just brought up the sneak attack thing, but it didn't occur to me at the time.

[Demonofhunger]

T
I have tested Req vs invincible. DMG was dealt. This was on the normal servers, so perhaps that accounts for the difference. I guess I should have screen shotted that..

I haven't tested physical shield as of yet. Hadn't had any business near hydras lately.

It punches through the Physical Shield of the hydras in Grauberg [A].