This is not what we meant when we were talking about bullet prices...

[Deadvinta]

I'm looking at abandoning RNG entirely. Or at least until I seriously decide to level alchemy, GS and synergy. Adaman bullets are 100k a stack. Totally unacceptable SE, shame on you.

Those bullets don't look like arrows. How do you nock them onto your bow?

[Greatguardian]

I don't see a big issue honestly. 1 Orichalcum ingot costs 20-25k on my server which can yield up to 3 stacks of bullets. AH price is still a bit high(50-60k/stack), but it's not that bad.
Unless you wanna shoot these for Last Stand as well.

So they do HQ into multiple stacks then? I keep hearing people tell me that all the HQ tiers are just 1 stack, which is fairly annoying. I'll probably be having a friend craft me about 24 stacks of bullets this weekend so it would be awesome if there was confirmation of this.

[Mirabelle]

I don't see a big issue honestly. 1 Orichalcum ingot costs 20-25k on my server which can yield up to 3 stacks of bullets. AH price is still a bit high(50-60k/stack), but it's not that bad.
Unless you wanna shoot these for Last Stand as well.

Can I move to your server? On Odin Orichalcum ingots are 50k and no stacks or pouches have appeared because crafters are gouging by selling individual bullets for 10k a piece. That's a million gil/stack.

And for COR, they are the highest damaging bullet both for WF and Last Stand. So in an ideal world, a COR would use these full time. But SE pulls another Oberon's despite the myraids of complaints about those bullets.

[Greatguardian]

I've said it once and I'll say it again for emphasis:

The problem with Oberon's was the fact that Phrygian Ore only dropped from Campaign Union chests. It was not the inate price of the bullets, but the supply and artificial price inflation caused by an iron grip on that supply.

Unless Orichalcum suddenly becomes rare, there really shouldn't be an issue populating the AH's with it resulting in a solid price stabilization of around 40k-50k/bullet stack depending on whether or not they HQ into multiples. If they don't, 50-60/stack is more likely.

And yes, Odin really just sucks and I suggest seeking out a crafter personally and working with them to get your supply if the AH won't populate.

[Afania]

COR in Voidwatch is pretty much the strongest DD in the game, just saying.

Community Perspective is pretty silly when most of the community couldn't tie their own shoelaces with a manual and 5 wikis telling them how to do it, lol.

Strongest DD? That's totally biased. Ukko average 2~4k+ oh Pil(some even claim to spike 5k), SAM new WS average 2k+ on Kaggen, all of them has same TP buff as COR if in DD pt so they WS just as many. You don't even need to get out of AoE range nowadays since pt proc so fast that many VWNM like Pil/Qilin pretty much die in 5~10 min with WAR full time engage it. Even RNG has higher AGI overall for WF, let alone access to better physical WS and /ra DPS.

I'm sorry but you're paying 100k a stack of bullet and still not the strongest just saying, when WAR SAM do more without spending any money. And I don't think it's reasonable. If you enjoy spending money go ahead, but I believe most us don't.
And it has nothing to do with being cheap and such, we're just asking reasonable prices and that's it.

[Greatguardian]

On paper? No. In practice? Yes.

An aggressive Corsair can beat out a Mnk/War/Sam who are stuck in melee range and have to deal with proc WS when they come up. There's a reason I said "In Voidwatch". There are quite a few factors there that inhibit standard DDs, from Fanatics requirements to proc weapons/WS and beyond. Corsair is unfettered by these limitations, as any good VW group will have a Ranger there to cover Marksman/Archery procs anyways. Even when these are nullified by easy procs/White proc/etc, Corsair can easily keep up with melee DDs in a zerg scenario.

RA DPS is also unnecessary as you're almost always going to be WS'ing immediately back to back with Quick Draw, which adds a good deal to Corsair's damage total on its own. I'm not sure what better WS Ranger has access to, considering Last Stand is usable by Thief for crying out loud, and handily destroys all other physical Marksmanship WS. Or do you mean Jishnu's Radiance? I'd be interested in seeing how that compares to Last Stand outside Abyssea.

When I manage to place less than 3rd place in the Voidwatch parse on Corsair, I'll concede defeat. Hasn't happened yet, though.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying less money. A penny saved, etc. However, I feel like our ammunition issues were addressed with this update. Supply is fine, that ensures a stable market at a reasonable price. Corsair is expensive to play. Warrior is free. So what? Let anyone too cheap to handle 50k/stack bullets go play Warrior. They'd hardly be playing this job well if so little money became a problem.

And just for good measure, Ukko's does not "average" 2k-4k on Pil any more than Saevel's Chant du Cygne averages 2k on Pil - which is to say, fulltiming temps that last 30 seconds (Champion's) doesn't happen. 2k-2.5k is a pretty solid average for Ukko's.

[Afania]

On paper? No. In practice? Yes.

An aggressive Corsair can beat out a Mnk/War/Sam who are stuck in melee range and have to deal with proc WS when they come up. There's a reason I said "In Voidwatch". There are quite a few factors there that inhibit standard DDs, from Fanatics requirements to proc weapons/WS and beyond. Corsair is unfettered by these limitations, as any good VW group will have a Ranger there to cover Marksman/Archery procs anyways. Even when these are nullified by easy procs/White proc/etc, Corsair can easily keep up with melee DDs in a zerg scenario.

RA DPS is also unnecessary as you're almost always going to be WS'ing immediately back to back with Quick Draw, which adds a good deal to Corsair's damage total on its own. I'm not sure what better WS Ranger has access to, considering Last Stand is usable by Thief for crying out loud, and handily destroys all other physical Marksmanship WS. Or do you mean Jishnu's Radiance? I'd be interested in seeing how that compares to Last Stand outside Abyssea.

When I manage to place less than 3rd place in the Voidwatch parse on Corsair, I'll concede defeat. Hasn't happened yet, though.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying less money. A penny saved, etc. However, I feel like our ammunition issues were addressed with this update. Supply is fine, that ensures a stable market at a reasonable price. Corsair is expensive to play. Warrior is free. So what? Let anyone too cheap to handle 50k/stack bullets go play Warrior. They'd hardly be playing this job well if so little money became a problem.

And just for good measure, Ukko's does not "average" 2k-4k on Pil any more than Saevel's Chant du Cygne averages 2k on Pil - which is to say, fulltiming temps that last 30 seconds (Champion's) doesn't happen. 2k-2.5k is a pretty solid average for Ukko's.

I've seen Ukko done over 2.5k nearly every WS and spike 4.8k on Pil, but I didn't parse, only took SS. So nothing to prove it really.

WAR usually ended up tanking anyways, if the pt proc fast enough WAR can totally just stay alive. Some easier NM like Qilin nowadays are nothing but WAR's one man show, everyone's really just there to proc for WAR to deal more dmg and last longer. Yes melees needs stuff like fanatic, but a well origanized VW pt can proc really really fast and often enough to sustain a WAR full time in the front line. I haven't got a chance to see new GK WS in action though, it may be just as strong.

The arguement that "DDs needs to proc" can be used on COR itself, even if you have RNG, doesn't mean you shouldn't help proc. COR can still proc gun/sword/dagger WS, fat chances are you may not cover them all considering ppl don't use THF or DNC a lot. The faster you can get proc done, the more time other DDs can start to do dmg too. You have to look at the entier pt killing speed.

Oh the other hand if you're not doing proc only doing dmg, while other DDs actually sacrifice their dmg for proc, isn't that a waste of entier pt dmg too? You can't really argue that COR is better DD than other DDs just because you let other ppl do the proc job, then tell about how you parse No.1 because other ppl were busy doing proc while you were not.

RNG certainly has higher dmg overall if both jobs getting same buff. Coronach is static 80 CE 240 VE per WS, they can do over 100 WS before capping hate and eat dirt. If they need high dmg spike WS for blitz zerg or least bit of HP etc, they also have better dmg bullet for Last Stand. If both using Wildfire, RNG has slightly more AGI from gears and stats, which may make up the fire shot bonus(alone with higher /ra DPS and JAs) considering fire shot is 40~45 sec recast time.

And no you can't WS back to back due to QD recast time, sometimes you have to deal with rebuffing/bust/bad number buffs and such also. Even if you do managed to WS back to back with JAs and what not, you still cap hate much faster than relic RNG. You mentioned you die easily in VW on the forum before no? Combining with those factors, I think saying COR is "strongest DD in VW" is pretty biased if you only based on your parse result. Parse result never really mean anything when it totally depend on the situations. I can go find a parse result of WAR parse No.1, or SAM parse No.1 in VW as well then tell you WAR or SAM is strongest DD, but that's like children arguing who's strongest character in Street Fighter.

[Afania]

My point is, saying X job is strongest based on parse result is pretty biased, considering sometimes parse result can make ppl blind and not doing what benefits the pt the most. If you're the one parsing, you usually may ended up parsing higher because other ppl isn't focusing on dmg. And you may be doing something that's not most beneficial just to squeeze out some extra dmg. Not trying for proc unless it's HQ, and such. I remember long time ago when I did Einherjar with a LS at 80(or 85? can't remember) cap, a WAR loves to fell cleave mobs when ppl pulled them and mages slept them, just so that he can parse higher with AoE dmg. In his eyes it's probably not a big deal to AoE and wake all the mobs up, since we didn't wipe and mages can sleep them again, but IMO that's totally epeen selfish move just for his personal gratification. Did he get to prove that WAR is best DD in Ein or he is best player? Not at all, just proves how parse result can make ppl blind and made himself look bad.

[Seha]

that's like children arguing who's strongest character in Street Fighter.

Akuma obviously.

[cidbahamut]

Akuma obviously.

More likely it would start with an argument over which Street Fighter you're playing.