Why no Nuke love??

[Economizer]

While partly true, undead also take significantly more damage from Banish spells than other enemy types.

If we can nuke better on undead in any case, I'd imagine it is because undead have a terrible MND stat for damage calculations. Still, a Black Mage destroys us against them.

In my mind, cure spells should deal their healing amount in damage, as has always been the case in Final Fantasy games with no resistance possible and no MAB modifier added. At best, we could deal around 2.5k damage with Cure VI on an undead using Divine Seal, so it's hardly going to make us overpowered.

Cure VI hard caps at 1140 damage (very hard to get to), so the best we'd be able to pull is 2280 damage with Divine Seal. Even at a full potency, cure spells aren't very MP efficient unless you also add no resist and are fighting very resistant mobs.

Sorry, but Dark Knights don't even come anywhere near close. Their nuking potential is severely hampered by melee-centric equipment and a lack of MAB. There are items which boost that a bit, but it's hardly enough to make Dark Knights consider their elemental skill worthwhile. On the other hand, they do get a strong Drain spell but it's completely useless against undead. Paladins, again, can't really compete due to their melee-centric or tank-centric equipment. Maybe if they pushed the boat out they could get it higher, but their typically lower MIND stat drastically reduces the damage output on Banish spells when compared to White Mages.

I certainly didn't mean against undead, but I suppose Dark Knights have had a lack of nuking gear in general, and has had the nuking side ignored for far too long. Paladin on the other hand has a job ability they can use every ten minutes that boosts the damage done by Banish and Holy by a very significant amount.

This may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but the point was not to say either of these are good or where they should be at nuking, but to say that White Mage sucks at it.

Yeah, that was really my point. Afflatus Misery isn't much of a benefit for nuking, despite what some earlier posts suggested. Taking considerable damage to deal a little bit more in nuke potential is a really stupid idea. I wonder which Dev thought that little beauty up.

Afflatus Misery sucks in general, currently the best usage for it is to ungimp Esuna. I've been considering a post about it recently...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

A 99 WHM/SCH with perfect curing gear will have~
49% potency, 58 MND, 29 skill, -3 enm
Base power 824, Cure V ~1,228

A 99 RDM/SCH with perfect curing gear will have~

50% (52//capped) potency, 100MND, 9 skill, -7 enm
Base power 917, Cure V ~1,264

Say what!!!

WHM

20% Merits
10% SCH
15% Clogs
15% Legs
5% Neck

Healing:
Staff : 23%
Back : 4%
Head: 10%
Augur Gloves: 4%
Earring: 5%
Preaco Trousers: 4%

(You'll notice this even allows you to use the Emp body)
--------------------
50% Potency -- 65% Fast Cast (Could get more with the staff for light damage) | Fast Cast only needs to be equipped at the beginning of the cast... So I fail to see your logic.

For fun:

WHM Nuking:
Main - Staff (~35%)
Sub -
Ammo - Memoria Sachet (2 MAB)
Head - Nefer Khat (5 MAB)
Neck - Stoicheion Medal (8 MAB) / Saevus (9 MAB)
Ear1 - Novio / Strophadic Earring / Moldavite (6 / 4 MAB)
Ear2 - Hecates Earring (7 MAB)
Body - Morrigan's Robe (5 MAB)
Hands - Eradico Mitts (7 MAB)
Ring1 - Strendu Ring (4 MAB)
Ring2 - Whatever!
Back - Hecates (3 MAB) - Romanus (4 MAB)
Waist - Oneiros Sash (4 MAB)
Legs - Wicca (4 MAB) / Teal (3 MAB)
Feet - Theurgia Clogs (4 MAB)

This wont make them compete with BLM, but if you wanted to, you could buil a magical damage set.

Proving that you missed the point in this first place is not needed as someone else did so.

[Aleste]

Ok, it's obvious you know less about whitemage than you pretend to think you know.

Firstly, under certain circumstances it is more preferable to use a lower potency build if you're gaining a significant amount of MND. A good example of this was at the previous cap when using Augur gloves and any MND feet performed better than the serpentes pair. 1% potency difference versus 17 MND and 5 skill.

If you'd like to educate yourself more, there's an interesting thread over on the FFXIAH forums 'Tefnut wand vs Surya's' where Kalilla covers a vast number of potential sets and the output cure values.

Secondly, Praeco Trousers? Serious? Any intelligent whitemage will be using orison pantaloons +2, which, just for the record can almost double your HP/MP efficiency per spell.

Edit:// Numbers-
105 MND (+90 gear), 86 VIT, 414 Skill (+29 gear) gives a power of 954. 50% potency gives a cure V of 1,134. WHM/SCH with light arts; Cure V costs 122 MP.

Without pants gives a 9.29 HP/MP ratio
With pants, returns 56.7 (floored) MP, which effectivally makes your cure V cost 66MP. 17.18 HP/MP ratio.

Go back to the redmage forums, at least you know what you're talking about there.

//Second edit : Typos

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Ok, it's obvious you know less about whitemage than you pretend to think you know.

Firstly, under certain circumstances it is more preferable to use a lower potency build if you're gaining a significant amount of MND. A good example of this was at the previous cap when using Augur gloves and any MND feet performed better than the serpentes pair. 1% potency difference versus 17 MND and 5 skill.

If you'd like to educate yourself more, there's an interesting thread over on the FFXIAH forums 'Tefnut wand vs Surya's' where Kalilla covers a vast number of potential sets and the output cure values.

Secondly, Praeco Trousers? Now you've really shot yourself in the foot. Any intelligent whitemage will be using orison pantaloons +2, which, just for the record can double your HP/MP efficency per spell.

It was as a point genius. Necklace +1 and lvl 99 staff is 50% without trousers so again, your point for not having 50% is?

But do keep continuing to miss the point, it is ever so fun.

PS. When'd the cure format change:

49% Potency - 29 Healing skill plus cap, and 58 MND != 1224 when I checked the format. -- 1059

Just checked over my gear and I have:

50% Potency
+20 Skill
+65 MND
The Emp Body+Trousers

I'm fine with that, should they actually make skill worth anything, I'll change it then.

[Aleste]

Fair enough, my cure calculator program appears to be out of date and the resultant cure V numbers incorrect*. Thanks, I've updated the Cure V post with the new Cure V numbers just for you and to save you scrolling up, there's a difference of 24 HP in redmages favour, however that isn't taking cureskin into account.

Don't you think it's highly unusual for the premier healing class to cure LESS than a jack-of-all-trades?

It was as a point genius. Necklace +1 and lvl 99 staff is 50% without trousers so again, your point for not having 50% is?

The post above said:

Firstly, under certain circumstances it is more preferable to use a lower potency build if you're gaining a significant amount of MND. A good example of this was at the previous cap when using Augur gloves and any MND feet performed better than the serpentes pair. 1% potency difference versus 17 MND and 5 skill.

It's nice to see you're reading posts before replying.



Although, yes I'll agree that this tangent on Cure V is getting a little out of hand... (don't try to do the math on scholar getting Cure V, it's almost rediculous)

She wasn't saying 'prove to me why you are or aren't for or against Cure V for RDMs" she was saying "wanting Banish IV because it's been enough levels to justify having a higher tier" is similar to the Cure V argument going around.

I had originally read Cids' clever wordplay to imply that WHM getting Banish 4 would be akin to RDM (and SCH) getting Cure V. Of course SE specifically told us that RDM (or SCH) will not be getting Cure V, however, this is where the difference lies.

WHMs were given Banish4 and ga-3 on the test server for a month or so, only to have it removed with this quote:

Sorry to disappoint any of you who were getting their hopes up, but the release timing for Banish IV and Banishga III are currently undecided.

They are on the test server for you to try out, but we are still in the process of looking into the stats.

AND

Banish IV and Banishga III, for which an implementation timetable has yet to be determined, have received a lot of attention.

The implication is that we will be getting them eventually~



*Until I can be bothered downloading FFXIcalc again I'll be referring to http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

[Alkimi]

Say what!!!
WHM Nuking:
Main - Staff (~35%)
Sub -
Ammo - Memoria Sachet (2 MAB)
Head - Nefer Khat (5 MAB)
Neck - Stoicheion Medal (8 MAB) / Saevus (9 MAB)
Ear1 - Novio / Strophadic Earring / Moldavite (6 / 4 MAB)
Ear2 - Hecates Earring (7 MAB)
Body - Morrigan's Robe (5 MAB)
Hands - Eradico Mitts (7 MAB)
Ring1 - Strendu Ring (4 MAB)
Ring2 - Whatever!
Back - Hecates (3 MAB) - Romanus (4 MAB)
Waist - Oneiros Sash (4 MAB)
Legs - Wicca (4 MAB) / Teal (3 MAB)
Feet - Theurgia Clogs (4 MAB)

This wont make them compete with BLM, but if you wanted to, you could buil a magical damage set.

Proving that you missed the point in this first place is not needed as someone else did so.

My Current set I use:

Surya's Staff +3 (Light damage) / Verse Strap +1 / -- / Witchstone
-- / Saevus Pendant / Novio Earring / Hecate's Earring
Twilight Cloak / Eradico Mitts / Strendu Ring / Aquasoul Ring
Searing Cape / Oneiros Sash / Augur's Brais /Marduk's Crackows

In total gives me +35% light damage potency, +57 Magic Attack Bonus and +29 MND. Fully solace charged Holy II does about 2k to trash mobs and ~1.3k to higer tier voidwatch (if they don't have an innate resistance).

Banish IV was on the test server for a while and it was completely terrible as you would expect, don't think we need it.

[Economizer]

*Until I can be bothered downloading FFXIcalc again I'll be referring to http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

While Steve's Cure Calculator can be accurate most of the time, it doesn't have information about new caps, and when SE changes the formulas it will be completely out of date. It probably won't be maintained either, I recently emailed him based on the contact info and I received a nice reply explaining that he hasn't played in a while.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Don't you think it's highly unusual for the premier healing class to cure LESS than a jack-of-all-trades?

--

(don't try to do the math on scholar getting Cure V, it's almost rediculous)

You could get higher than RDM if you replaced Emp body, but losing ~24 points worth of potency for a ~400 SS is worth it. That in my opinion is WHM's biggest bonus, yeah huge cures are nice but Cureskin is where they trump any healing class. It changes a simple cure spell into a form of damage mitigation, that and as you've said their MP control now is what puts WHM so far ahead were RDM or SCH to get Cure V they still couldn't keep up.

I also personally find it insulting an Enfeebler/Enhancer/Melee is inferior to WHM in those fields -merits. I can't congratulate the developers on their dodgy jobs creation.

---

I assumed it would be, they can get near Cure V potency with Cure IV so I dread to think what kind of potency Cure V would be, no doubt massively superior to Cure VI.

[Aleste]

--- SCH cure V numbers >.>;;;;;
Because, why the hell not. Unfortunately SCH is capable of maintaining capped cure potency without using belt/back, which allows us to fully utilise weather for additional potency.

Arka IV, Verse Grip+1, ---, Mana Ampulla
Savant+2, Fylgia+1, Roundel, Neptune Pearl
Heka, Augur, Aquasoul, Aquasoul
Twilight, Korin, Rubeus, Calm Pigaches

99SCH/WHM (+merits)
412 + 5 Skill (LA)
94 + 68 MND
76 + 0 VIT

0 + 50% Potency
10% Light obi
5% Twilight Cape
60% Enhanced Rapture

734 (pre-potency) -> 1174 (rapture) -> 1761 (+potency) -> 2025 (+obi/cape)
I'm not 100% sure that is where rapture is stacked though~

Excluding rapture timer, replace savants bonnet +2 with Ruach Crown (+12) MND gives a resultant of ~1275

[Daniel_Hatcher]

--- SCH cure V numbers >.>;;;;;
Because, why the hell not. Unfortunately SCH is capable of maintaining capped cure potency without using belt/back, which allows us to fully utilise weather for additional potency.

Arka IV, Verse Grip+1, ---, Mana Ampulla
Savant+2, Fylgia+1, Roundel, Neptune Pearl
Heka, Augur, Aquasoul, Aquasoul
Twilight, Korin, Rubeus, Calm Pigaches

99SCH/WHM (+merits)
412 + 5 Skill (LA)
94 + 68 MND
76 + 0 VIT

0 + 50% Potency
10% Light obi
5% Twilight Cape
60% Enhanced Rapture

734 (pre-potency) -> 1174 (rapture) -> 1761 (+potency) -> 2025 (+obi/cape)
I'm not 100% sure that is where rapture is stacked though~

Excluding rapture timer, replace savants bonnet +2 with Ruach Crown (+12) MND gives a resultant of ~1275

/Smile and there is why SCH especially wont get Cure V.