DRK and MP and Damage Dealing.

[Selzak]

Steps for success when updating DRK:


1. Think realistically
Before you do anything, think about it in the actual context of the game. DRK has a lot of things that look good on paper but become superfluous and useless in application.

2. Let us use our toys
Look back at the Absorb-TP nerf. If it was too powerful, consider changing the recast or resist rate instead of just making it not worth the casting time or MP. A lot of the things that are supposed to set DRK apart amount to nothing more than novelties. For the longest time, Souleater and Last Resort (our two defining JA's) suffered this fate. THANK YOU for fixing that, now leave the JA's alone because we're fine and don't need any more superfluous things cluttering the list. Things like Drain (recast + formula), Drain II (recast), Absorb-TP (nerf into uselessness), Dread Spikes (hard duration- capping damage drained is fine, but the 1 minute duration no matter what is just annoying), Scarlet Delirium (no one is going to ever use this), Absorb-STAT spells (extremely out-dated and unnoticeable), and Elemental spells (absolutely useless in any realistic sense) have not been so lucky. The job is cluttered full of things that it has, but can't really do.

3. Define a role
DRK's identity for a long, long time was the Stun Knight. This was a legitimate role (albeit a somewhat weak one) that we would love to have back. Consider giving us a JA along the lines of Zeid's Abyssal Strike that stuns the enemy and does damage- it can be set to a 60 second recast with moderate damage (something like a melee attack, or less), no TP return, and an added Stun effect. In a tangled bunch of melee jobs fighting for supremecy, DRK doesn't need more melee damage if it's capable of something more. I sincerely hope that this is where DRK goes.

4. Realize the description
Absorb-Attri was a step in the right direction. The job needs more unique debilitating capabilities. The Absorb-STAT spells are a lost, dead art to DRK- consider giving them a considerable buff (or make the amount stolen go up and rate of decay go down scaling with level or something- finally capping at a set duration with no decay at level 99). DRK really needs something to set it apart here: consider giving DRK a currently unavailable, new way to hinder enemies. Something like Terror or Plague comes to mind; obviously balance would need to be taken into account, and it would require a bit of creativity to make it fit correctly...the point, though, is that DRK does need some kind of powerful debuff to bring to a PT that no other job can do better.

5. Be creative
En-Dark was a perfect add. Using magic to add to our damage in a unique way (it's unique in the context of melee jobs) is fantastic. No complaints whatsoever there, great job. Do more stuff like this. One thing that I posted a long time ago, and that I think most everyone is on board with, is the idea of giving DRK a 'Blood Weapon' trait that activates at a low rate and is susceptible to resists.

6. Open up the gates
Number 4 is, I think, by far the most important aspect to consider. However, the concept of the job seems to be that DRK can do melee damage and magic damage. To make this practical, DRK's nuking capabilities need a complete overhaul. DRK would do well to have one or two high-cost, quick-casting Darkness nukes. I don't think we need more than one to two of these, like Demi and Darkness or Darkness I and Darkness II...just two quick, practical spells for dark damage. Be creative with this stuff...the balance factor could be high resists instead of simply never letting us cast it. Require us to swap in a casting set if we want it to land fully on a regular basis. A big problem holding DRK's magic damage back, as everyone has been stating...forever, is the fact that whatever damage you do with a spell must include a subtraction of the damage you'd have done with your normal swings if you had not casted it. This, coupled with long recasts on spells like Drain and Drain II (which both deserve it for the damage/cost ratio...Drain II perhaps being a bit over-adjusted) make any damage DRK can do with its magic either impractical or inefficient. The Quick Magic trait, which would simply occasionally counteract the side-effects of this, would be perfect for DRK. Spells like Drain, Drain II, and Dread Spikes could become more than just a novelty with this trait.

7. Diversify
I love the idea of Greatsword being DRK's pure melee weapon and Scythe being the utility/hybrid tool of choice (with WS like Catastrophe, Entropy, and magic-based stuff that everyone hates). This is a very cool concept, and you might take it further by defining it with an early Job Trait that differentiates the two weapons. Solidify Greatsword as our pure melee, tough enemy weapon and Scythe as our utility, solo/small party oriented weapon.


Please just try to enjoy the job's concept for a moment and be creative with it...then realize it.

Shamelessly quoting myself for another page and adding an idea I had for that unique enfeebling necessity that I feel is the most important thing for DRK right now:

A new line of debilitating spells to define the job's enfeebling role~

Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.


*These spells overwrite eachother.

Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.


There's you some spells to cast. There's you a reason to invite a DRK to your PT. There's your unique, perfectly martial/magical identifying line of spells to define the job. If the future identity for WAR is the ability to change its weapon type, what more perfect way to define DRK (WAR/BLM) than with this dark arts twist on that concept. This is exactly the kind of thing the job needs to make its MP bar feel like part of the job again.

[Savlyn]

Seconded again ^^

[Rydstrom]

best idea ever.

Shamelessly quoting myself for another page and adding an idea I had for that unique enfeebling necessity that I feel is the most important thing for DRK right now:

A new line of debilitating spells to define the job's enfeebling role~

Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.


*These spells overwrite eachother.

Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.


There's you some spells to cast. There's you a reason to invite a DRK to your PT. There's your unique, perfectly martial/magical identifying line of spells to define the job. If the future identity for WAR is the ability to change its weapon type, what more perfect way to define DRK (WAR/BLM) than with this dark arts twist on that concept. This is exactly the kind of thing the job needs to make its MP bar feel like part of the job again.

[Urteil]

Shamelessly quoting myself for another page and adding an idea I had for that unique enfeebling necessity that I feel is the most important thing for DRK right now:

A new line of debilitating spells to define the job's enfeebling role~

Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.


*These spells overwrite eachother.

Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.


There's you some spells to cast. There's you a reason to invite a DRK to your PT. There's your unique, perfectly martial/magical identifying line of spells to define the job. If the future identity for WAR is the ability to change its weapon type, what more perfect way to define DRK (WAR/BLM) than with this dark arts twist on that concept. This is exactly the kind of thing the job needs to make its MP bar feel like part of the job again.

If they did this well I wouldn't want another thing ever again.

[Urteil]

Both are worth considering and honestly I'd be happy either way. The reason I'm more on board with Quick Magic is because it resets recasts completely, and a lot of our spells have not aged well so casting an instant one followed immediately by another one causes them to have a real impact (i.e. with Drain)

The real reason why Drain has not aged so well is because Dark Magic after 300 skill no longer adds potency.

If the spell was on a 40 second timer before haste and gained all the potency it was meant to from skill + gear you are looking at 500~ unresisted drain I every 20~ seconds.

Right now with Appetence Crown and Bale Flanchard +2/Nethervoid I can easily do 1100+ unresisted drain II's to targets without severe magical defenses. If the potency was increased to match the sill + all of my +% gear it would be much higher.

So instead of a trait that randomly effects us, a straight reduction in timers in conjunction with the almighty appetetence crown/hirudinea earring/excelsis ring etc. Is more than enough and would in the long term add 100x more calculated survivability rather than missing the true problem (damage scaling) and trying to fix it with an atrocious amount of RNG.

[Concerned4FFxi]

A job ability that doubles ws damage and costs mp to use mp, sort of how smn has mana cede. I'd like to be able to use scythe, it's our best weapon, without having a relic. Let's face it, your two strikes in, the empyrean sux and the new ws is junk.

[hiko]

- new ja: spiriteater (overwrite/ is overwriten by souleater)
- impiousI/II ("dark holy")
- dark emblem
- dark afinity (JT, several tier)
- life drain (DoT drain, give a buff status, effect wear off if mob erase himself or dispell the drk)
- chaos ( aoe (5), selftarget. deal severe dmg to self and pt member, same total dmg dealt are also dealt to enemy in area, can be used to charge SD)

[Quetzacoatl]

Shamelessly quoting myself for another page and adding an idea I had for that unique enfeebling necessity that I feel is the most important thing for DRK right now:

A new line of debilitating spells to define the job's enfeebling role~

Dark Magic:
DRK 91) Rupture- Lowers enemy's resistance to blunt weapons.
DRK 96) Disclosure- Lowers enemy's resistance to piercing weapons.
DRK 99) Exposure- Lowers enemy's resistance to slashing weapons.


*These spells overwrite eachother.

Make these meritable to improve the effect. For tougher enemies, allow the spell to land regularly (with sufficient dark magic skill) and balance it by making them wear off within a shorter amount of time depending on how tough the monster is. In content like VW, balance the spell by letting it last just long enough for us to quickly set up a volley of SAM WS or something like that before it wears off.


There's you some spells to cast. There's you a reason to invite a DRK to your PT. There's your unique, perfectly martial/magical identifying line of spells to define the job. If the future identity for WAR is the ability to change its weapon type, what more perfect way to define DRK (WAR/BLM) than with this dark arts twist on that concept. This is exactly the kind of thing the job needs to make its MP bar feel like part of the job again.

Holy Shit. This a pretty damn amazing idea. I would be flabbergasted if SE doesn't at least try implementing something like this. But of course, when am I not flabbergasted when SE fails to deliver?

[Rohelius]

Think of it like a skinny guy hitting someone 100 times and doing more damage versus a professional boxer hitting someone once and doing less damage (overall). Still, we're calling the professional boxer stronger in this context. It's not that hard to understand I don't think.

Oh my god man how about we get each of the Devs in a line to take a punch from this guy so they can understand that concept.


And then line them up again after they stop puking to take one from this guy~

I mean, after that they should have a decent grasp of the concept you explained and hopefully knock(pun intended) some sense into them lol

[Chriscoffey]

I would suggest if we are going into this discussion we use an appropriate person. This is what dark knight was before the haste nerf w/Apoc.



This is how dark knight feels for me vs other melee now. Congrats SE on Samurai buffs. I am being sarcastic , however, I don't really believe SE knows what to do with dark but those are some good ideas previously for the magic aspect.