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  1. #1
    Player Malamasala's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,261

    New Blood Pacts needs a do-over

    Heavenward Howl:
    I tried this at 21% moon. My assumption would be that the buff given would be a "hp/mp drain" buff, and that the chance of HP absorption would be higher closer to full moon, and the chance of MP absorption would be higher closer to new moon. I buffed myself with it and proceeded to thwack crabs in Qufim. The only type of drain I ever got was MP drain. When I put the buff on myself, I got a single buff, but couldn't tell what it did because of there being no flavor text for the buff. It seems like the buff that I got wasn't an "hp/mp drain" buff, but just an "mp drain" buff because of the low moon phase. I can't be certain, but if this is the case then I think it's better than having a "hp/mp drain" buff that randomly drains either one; this would allow me to better plan when to use it. On the other hand, the MP drain side of this ability is worthless. I was getting 8-10 mp back per hit at 497 skill. I can only think of one job that would benefit from mp drain, BLU. PLD has enlight, and you cant have 2 enspells active. DRK has endark, the same thing applies. These jobs would prefer to have their enbuff over enaspir. BLU is the only job with mp that melees that doesn't have an enspell. It's the only job that this would be useful for in endgame situations (I'll say this so no one throws melee mage jobs at me as a counterargument). I would suggest removing the MP drain part of this ability completely, it's not strong enough (you'd think at 497 skill you'd get a decent return seeing as how ifrit's enfire does about 44 damage with that skill level), and it's not useful in endgame situations.
    Over the last 5 years or so I've attempted my best to explain that moon phase design is flawed and need to be abolished. It doesn't quite help that you add new abilities based on moon.

    Basing things on the moon is the most ridiculous design ever, and most fitting it is done to SMN, which is the worst designed MMO class in the history of gaming.

    What it boils down to is that you'll hit /clock and see "67% moon" and then you'll know that it is exactly one and a half real life week left before the Ward is useful for the battle you are going to do in 5 minutes.

    Do you ask your party to "wait, in 1.5 weeks we can do this fight since right now I'm a little weak"? No, instead you treat the Ward as it doesn't exist for the next 1.5 weeks.

    Fenrir and Diabolos both need to be functioning based on things you can affect.

    I understand you want to claim it is story based and Fenrir is closely related to the moon, but don't forget that Fenrir single handedly destroy the whole Yagudo army as well, so it should be dealing about 1000 damage per hit to fit the story. If you can avoid giving us overpowered 1000 damage Fenrirs due to balance of gameplay, you can avoid moon phases for unbalanced Ward pacts and make the avatar actually balanced and functioning.

    As we all are aware, an aspir effect is usually not effective in this game. So I'll agree with the quoted person that it would probably be better to just always be HP drain and never fluctuate with Moon phases. Unless you can manage to tweak the system to give both at the same time, and making it a special new ability instead of a copy of DNC sambas.

    Pavor Nocturnus:
    Aka Death. My first thoughts on this are that it's awsome, and a long time coming, especially after how Odin's 2hr death is lackluster (e.g. blow a ton of mp only to have another mob walk in the way, screw with his accuracy and end up missing the mob you were targeting initially). The great part about this ability is that we now have useful offensive ward pact (sorry Somnolence, you just aren't cutting it), so when it's time to pick a ward pact to use, and nothing else seems useful, we can slam this down for a chance at a KO. I havent tested it on NMs yet, but I need to stress this: this needs to be able to kill lower level NMs. I'm not talking about abyssea pop NMs, or HNMs. I'm talking about the dime-a-dozen worthless fodder mobs that are considered NMs in salvage, einherjar, etc. Either that, or stop labeling fodder mobs as NMs. It's annoying when you can't use Odin against lower level NMs in tough situations, simply because they're labeled as "NM"s.
    A pact that can have no effect is a pact that does need to be added to the game. Nothing is worse than using your global pact timer and MP for nothing.

    It is quite obvious this should work as the new Delfkutts Tower VW Eye. Death OR 400-500 damage. Making it a pact worth using ALWAYS instead of NEVER.

    Please adjust this. It should be easy. Just make it deal damage when it "misses". Do that and Diabolos might actually be worth using. Currently I don't think I've used him outside of "for fun" the last year.
    (9)

    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    We are currently looking into enhancing elemental spirits.
    Miracles do happen!

  2. #2
    Player
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    Mar 2011
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    80
    I play smn and I approve this message.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Clou777's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok, Shiva Server
    Posts
    395
    Character
    Cloudius
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    would be better if they just added 2 new wards for fenrir, 1 for HP and 1 for MP and the potency of the drain is effected by moon phase
    (2)
    Cloudius

    Shiva

    SMN99 WHM99 BLM99 THF99 PLD99 SAM99 NIN99 BLU99 DNC99 MNK99 WAR99

  4. #4
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    10,095
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Clou777 View Post
    would be better if they just added 2 new wards for fenrir, 1 for HP and 1 for MP and the potency of the drain is effected by moon phase
    That's a good solution. But SE isn't well known for using the good solutions.

    In all likelyhood they might have considered that idea, but wanted to save JA space (there is a limit on the number that can exist) or something so made it one ability when it would normally have made sense to have two.

    Alternatively, maybe they feel they'd be stepping on DNC too much if they let you choose. IDK, it's stupid regardless of the reason.

    I don't personally have a big issue with Diablos' pact. It's basically the only BP Ward that can really kill something. If Old Dynamis were still around, I'd say it might have been really worth having (when BLMs sleep a pull, use the death spell as a "free" shot at reducing the number of monsters and easing the pull without any real effort). Now, I can't think of a lot of opportunities to try something like that.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Community Rep Rukkirii's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    65
    There are no plans on removing the moon phase requirements for Fenrir's blood pacts at this time. These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest. For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.

    In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy. We are also looking into adding an effect in the case that the blood pact's main effect misses, however, it will not be direct damage.
    (5)

    Bethany "Rukkirii" Stout - Community Team

  6. #6
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    10,095
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest.
    You don't seem to understand that blood pacts that can basically only be used on certain days of the real life week are a waste of a blood pact slot.

    For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.
    Thanks for the captain obvious statement here... The problem is that "those times" which you refer to is about 99% of the time. What are the odds that you're going to go "gosh, I wish I had HP drain on my attacks!" and you're not going to have a Dancer, or the moon isn't going to be high, or all of the planets in the galaxy haven't aligned with vana'diel?

    We'd rather have a blood pact that can be used whenever the situation calls for it, not a blood pact that is only useful when the stars and planets align. Why add an ability to the game, and make it so hard to use that there's not a chance in hell anyone will ever actually use it?

    Edit: Small, "don't kill the messenger" apology for Camate, I guess. When I said "you," I really meant "the Devs". I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought you were responsible for the silly decisions that are being made.

    Edit: I should point out that Fenrir's other Ward abilities do not make you choose between one effect and another- they give you more of one thing and less of another depending on the moon, but you always get all of the effects (e.g. acc/evasion howl always boosts both, but the amounts depend on the moon phase; the stat boost howl always raises all stats, but the amounts depend on the moon phase. With this new BP, we get one effect or the other depending on the moon phase.
    (12)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 12-13-2011 at 02:10 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    Can you please tell the devs effects attached to Moonphase and Time of Day are very bad ideas and basically kill the viability of such abilities? No one is going to go "Oh hey let's put off our fight for another three real life days so the moon phase is ripe!". It's a stupid mentality to have in regards to abilities in general.
    (7)

  8. #8
    Player Byrth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Those are some godawful translations you've got there, but we get the idea. You want to make absolutely sure no one will use them.
    (8)

  9. #9
    Player Xellith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Xellith
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 95
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukkirii View Post
    There are no plans on removing the moon phase requirements for Fenrir's blood pacts at this time. These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest. For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.

    In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy. We are also looking into adding an effect in the case that the blood pact's main effect misses, however, it will not be direct damage.
    It's things like this that are making me not renew my subscription.
    (3)
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost
    Eleven Fajin boots!
    We did Voidwatch today and Eleven Fajin Boots dropped!! Yay! Thank you Square Enix Incorporated! The Three People that got them today were really happy

  10. #10
    Player Feliciaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    118
    Character
    Feliciaa
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 90
    Stuff like this really is beyond bad design. It's flat out not understanding how your own game works....

    Why would any player want a Blood Pact that is only good during a certain moon phase when it literally takes REAL LIFE DAYS for it to even happen?

    Is this a troll or is the design team really that bad at designing meaningful summoner content?
    (4)
    Last edited by Feliciaa; 12-13-2011 at 01:56 PM.

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