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  1. #81
    Player Godofgods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    711
    Character
    Godofgods
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    the only way i see pld becomeing a main tank again is by having them deal as much dmg as other main tanks. (thf nin)
    Or having situation where tanking a mob requires abilitys that only pld has.
    (0)

  2. #82
    Player Mathieu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    53
    Character
    Mathieu
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 60
    A "you must attack me for X seconds regardless of enmity" ability would bypass the enmity issue entirely as long as it isn't ridiculous, like lasts for 10 seconds on a 10 minute cooldown. It fits the class and as long as it is too high to sub or completely gimped as a subjob ability, it would be unique. It shouldn't be sustainable 100% of the time, but it should be a decent chunk of time. Making Cover work 100% of the time would help. The Merit could reduce recharge so that it helps you change who it is on more often. Adding an Accomplice/Collaborator ability would also make a difference. I'm not really sure why they are Thief abilities in the first place. I know Thief is supposed to specialize in hate control, but the original point was to transfer their hate to someone else. One weak variant, I can see, if there was also an alternate skill that transferred part of the Thief's hate to someone else. Giving two abilities to Thief, a class designed to do the exact polar opposite of what they do, is a little silly.

    Between all three of those, a Paladin would be able to stop one party member from being attacked, regardless of enmity through Cover. Reduce another party member's enmity (regardless of problems with the system, this would at least temporarily keep them from getting attacked), and be able to temporarily ignore the enmity system entirely. None of this requires any special change to the core system and two of these abilities are already in the game.

    Personally, I don't think making Paladin do as much damage as other melee classes is the right way to go. Yeah, it does help in the 2% of game content that is the only thing people play and expect everything to be balanced around. However, what happens when the next batch of endgame content comes out with its own unique mechanics? If Paladin is already in the same ballpark for damage, they could easily invalidate every other melee class in terms of usefulness. Even if they can't hold hate properly, having better mitigation, healing, and utility abilities basically puts them ahead of every other melee class if you get those without sacrificing much damage in the process.

    The problem is that the core of the class needs to be fixed. Just trying to patch it to work well enough in one specific situation with special mechanics is going to cause problems down the line, not to mention in all the old content everyone ignores at this point when talking about balance. Paladin is supposed to specialize in holding a monster's attention and damage mitigation. The enmity system is not the only way they have to work with for that. On top of that, the fact Thief gets abilities that are clearly designed for tanks is also an issue. If you look at EQ2, the equivalent to Accomplice and Collaborator is a Paladin ability.
    (0)

  3. #83
    Player lllen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Asura - Bastok
    Posts
    213
    Character
    Lllen
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zerich View Post
    Have all of the DD's pull back on their WS' and DMG, have SATA return, and only nuke on MB's!

    Fixed!
    Boy, that is so right.
    (0)

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher View Post
    Then the job becomes broken.. It basically would allow PLD to always tank, while the DD's have little to fear of dying outside of AoE. This is not the way it should be.
    Well this was the way before tho O.o
    (0)
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30234-linkshell-Suggestion!!!


  5. #85
    Player Caketime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Taco Bell
    Posts
    654
    Character
    Anonymous
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    The job designed to tank and hold enmity should not be able to hold enmity. Hilarious argument there.
    (2)

  6. #86
    Player Arcon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,753
    Character
    Arcon
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Caketime View Post
    The job designed to tank and hold enmity should not be able to hold enmity. Hilarious argument there.
    The job designed to tank and hold enmity should not be guaranteed enmity, but they should have to work for it. With that suggestion, PLD would not have try to keep hate on him full time, and that is a bad thing. You don't fix gameplay mechanics by eliminating those mechanics. If cures were broken, you wouldn't fix it by automatically disabling taking damage for the entire party just because a WHM is in the party.
    (0)
    All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    FFXI: Leviathan > Arcon
    FFXIV: Selbina > Arcon Villiers

  7. #87
    Player Caketime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Taco Bell
    Posts
    654
    Character
    Anonymous
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    When every boss uses 30' radial attacks with a hilarious combination of debilitating auras and alternate versions of status effects that can't be cured, any strategy other than "Let's drink fanny tonics and beat this thing stupid!" floats away like trash in the wind.

    I understand working to maintain your job's role and wasn't suggesting a super trait or anything silly, but tanking has been phased out by design. Paladin can still take hits like a boss, but all content design for years now has revolved around putting out as much damage as possible before a timer expires, and Pally's more of a marathon runner than a sprinter.
    (3)

  8. #88
    Player zaksame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1
    Character
    Tremors
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Provoke has been broken since level 75,too much dmg being dealt to coincide with the small numbers Voke give.

    IMO a great idea would be to utilize the Shield Bash that has ALWAYS been far too long a timer.
    My idea would be to give the PLD the option to forfeit 100 tp for an added SB,200 tp and gives added SB that stuns for 5 secs and 15% bonus to attack[60 secs] 300 tp gives 7 second stun plus 25% bonus to attack/15% bonus to defense [60 secs]

    Aside from that Provoke values need to be updated to coincide with the higher levels and higher damage.
    (0)

  9. #89
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,346
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I understand working to maintain your job's role and wasn't suggesting a super trait or anything silly, but tanking has been phased out by design. Paladin can still take hits like a boss, but all content design for years now has revolved around putting out as much damage as possible before a timer expires, and Pally's more of a marathon runner than a sprinter.
    What their really wanting is a system where it takes super gear to be able to "tank" and anyone without it would be left out. It's an exclusionary position.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  10. #90
    Player Mirabelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    DeadParrotSociety
    Posts
    354
    PLD just need a passive trait called absorb enmity.
    AE 1 = 10% of other party members enmity from any action is transferred to PLD
    AE 2 = 15%
    AE 3 = 20%

    Its an auto-cover trait that doesn't require positioning and means every melee action gives PLD enmity to keep up hate.
    Does it allow other jobs to act without fear? Yes. Do they currently act without fear? Yes.
    The only time melee back off currently is in the setting of terrible AoE which isn't altered by PLD being an effective tank. So it wouldn't break the job, but would allow PLD to actually do its job.

    In fact you could lessen the AE trait and make some gear that enhances it so the best tanks are working towards an awesome AE build as well as -PDT and -MDT.
    (0)
    Yo Ho Yo Ho, a pirate's life for me!

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