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  1. #21
    Player Patrik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Patrik
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    yea i'll admit to that being... annoying. of course i've had more parties than i can remember of spamming refresh and haste for hours. i guess what just mainly bothered me was the fact that SE gave us a direction they wanted to push us towards, and now its like they just gave up/don't care about what they said anymore. though i care about having real debuffs more than anything...
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player Economizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxiaz View Post
    Barspells (and their respective Barspellra counterparts) shouldn't be self-target only.
    SE said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Make it so enhancing magic AoE effects take place centered on the person targeted.
    Since AoE effects are strong, the idea is that you are taking a risk by the effect being centered on the caster. Curega is an exception to this, but it is balanced through a high amount of enmity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raxiaz View Post
    Gravity II does seem like an enormous trollface. The method Kristal proposed is a good fix.
    She isn't the only one that suggested it. Everyone pretty much has. In fact, I think SE mentioned something about it, but I can't really find that right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raxiaz View Post
    "Zombie" mentioned before would be kind of cool actually. Casting it on normal mobs to make them have undead properties would be nifty - especially since then the occasional accidental mob-cure will have a beneficial effect instead of no effect! Though I think that would be more of a DRK or BLM thing, still, it is as useful as Addle, which would be the WHM counterpart. And what's funny is all the jobs would rarely cast these spells.
    If RDM/DRK/BLM got it, it would be okay, but if it is Dark Magic, then Red Mage really should have theirs buffed in skill. The E in Divine makes sense since RDM has no native spells, but the E in Dark Magic doesn't make sense as long as Bio III is a Dark Magic spell... Having at least a C would be nice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Raxiaz View Post
    Saboteur (5 min recast and little extra benefit for that cost compared to the other mages' niches).
    Saboteur should really give an accuracy buff if it is to stay at five minutes. Having a enfeeble under a five minute job ability get resisted feels terrible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raxiaz View Post
    Perhaps Spontaneity could tie in with enfeebling enhancements but really.
    Spontaneity is fine. It fits more with Red Mage's whole "Fast Cast" deal, and is the counterpart to Black Mage's mini-2hour.

    -

    On buffs in general, I absolutely under no circumstances want to see Temper become a targetable buff - it was mean and should stay a buff for Red Mage melee, not something Red Mage has to cast on others and watch in misery as they aren't allowed to melee... on the other hand, if a Red Mage under Composure were to have a very, very small aura effect with it when the Red Mage has their weapon drawn...

    I know SE said aura effects weren't something they want to give players as much because they have no way of having mobs counter them, but if they are things monsters don't debuff against, then what is the problem? Refresh, Temper, Phalanx, Barspells, Spikes - none of these have a spell that counters them and having a (very small) aura on Red Mage would encourage people to allow Red Mages what SE has wanted for years, while still putting the Red Mage at the risk that SE seems to love for any benefit.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrik View Post
    yea i'll admit to that being... annoying. of course i've had more parties than i can remember of spamming refresh and haste for hours. i guess what just mainly bothered me was the fact that SE gave us a direction they wanted to push us towards, and now its like they just gave up/don't care about what they said anymore. though i care about having real debuffs more than anything...

    SE never gave us a "direction" for single target buff cycles, that was 100% purely the player community. It's an old story that not may newer players know about.

    Back in 2002 prior to Zilart and the NA release. RDM didn't have refresh, gravity, phalanx or dispel. Dia was also divine magic, this is why we have divine magic skill yet no spells. RDM was pretty much WAR + WHM with a sprinkling of BLM tossed in. The JP players really thought the job sucked and no one knew what to do with it. SE eventually steped in and changed Dia to Enfeebling magic, raise RDM's enfeebling from B to A+, created Dispel / Gravity, added Phalanx and then added Refresh. They were wanting to make RDM a self buffing enfeebling specialist. The player community looked at it sideways but then say that refresh was 3mp/tick. Back then parties lived on MP, ~EVERYTHING~ was about how long your MP supply could last. So RDM getting a 3mp/tick MP buff meant they could keep the healer's MP and Black mages MP going longer and thus RDM competed with the BRD for the "refresher" slot. This was before we discovered the awesomeness of Haste and TP spam. Then Zilart happened with NA's being introduced to the game (the JP's were pissed) and the rest is history. RDM's were invited to cast refresh on the healer and black mage, and maybe even the paladin or second black mage. This earned RDM's the "refresh whore" nickname, and refresh spell became known as "mage crack". This continued until shortly before ToAU when "Spampage" parties started becoming more common and Haste was discovered to scale exponentially, and so RDM went from "Refresh whore" to "Haste whore". If the melee's all had /NIN and we had a BRD for additional refresh, it was found that a single RDM could get enough refresh that they could spam Cure IV on the four WAR's (later four melees) and not run out of MP. And thus is born the dreaded "support role" of RDM.

    It was purely created from the player base finding out how to best abuse a RDM's unique combination of buffs and healing magic coupled with Convert. It never had anything to do with enfeebles, nor some special RDM magic. Only brute spamming of cures on a bunch of WAR/NIN's as they killed deco's in sky. And later on a bunch of melee's against little pink birds in ToAU.

    Frankly I ~NEVER~ want to go back to that time. I pretty much gave up on RDM and went back to my first love (SAM) back then, as did every other RDM I knew of. What you ended up with was a bunch of people who leveled RDM for the sole purpose of getting merits and "end game" gear.
    (4)

  4. #24
    Player ManaKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    897
    Character
    Iocus
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    RDM isn't a support. That would imply it was anything. Anyone who plays RDM can tell you what an incomplete job it is.

    SE has some real work ahead of it if it wants to make RDM anything but generally inferior. They won't do it. They just though that Gravity II and Requiescat were appropriate to get RDM from 95-99. Where is all the enfeebling magic re-balances we were told were coming? I guess that got lost in all the actual 'balance' they are doing. Since RDM isn't an actual job it won't be included until way past the point that it will be useful, if at all ever.

    Look at the track record of RDM improvements. They are massively behind the rest of the game. I don't know if SE hates RDM, the JPs hate RDM, or who it is, but someone hates RDM, and because of that, you, a RDM get to wait.....forever.....for nothing to happen.

    Any response to the future of RDM we have gotten on the RDM forums was given grudgingly (after we post 100s of pages of fighting on the forums as a way to quiet the bickering that ensues) or was posted in SCH forums and they didn't even include a post about things we have blatantly been taking about for as long as the forums have been open. We have never gotten anything except, no RDM won't ever get to do anything new and we have no intention of telling you what we are doing.....because they aren't going to do anything.
    (0)
    I'm a RequieSCAT-MAN!

  5. #25
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    There is a functional role for RDM now, it requires an insane amount of gear and concentration, and honestly it's usefulness is doubtful, but it does exist.

    SE seriously needs to add more stuff to RDM. First and foremost is more enfeebles, and not gimmicky ones like Break / Gravity / Bind / Silence that will just be nerfed into uselessness. Real enfeebles that reduce the monsters stats in some way, our 2nd best enfeeble (possibly best depending) shouldn't be coming from an "any mage" body piece. Inflicting minus's to various monster stats is a must.

    Also need native access to all the sword WS and more self buffs that alter our own stats. The Gain line was a good start, that it wasn't boost was sad but ohh well. Next is for stuff that adds MAB / FC / Cure Pot / Attack / Accuracy / Magic Accuracy and so forth. We should be capable of altering our stats to fit the situation as needed.
    (0)

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