The DD Balancing Game

[Saiken253]

1 last thing that SMN needs is to have Job Traits for their pets. Like Shiva have Magic Attack Bonus and other mage properties, Titan have defense Bonus and critical defense bonus stuff like that. Things that reflect them as summons, their element, and what each of them do. However, I believe all of them should have innate Double Attack/Triple Attack; The primes get it and our pets are definitely much higher level than they are.

[Economizer]

That's actually an awesome idea for DRK...although possibly overpowered.

Not really, just make it ~400 MP per TP and you basically have the effect of Occult Acumen without the casting or extra TP from the effects of Store TP. An insta-cast 400 MP cost spell would be an easy solution I suppose, but what would it do? I think that is part of the problem. Recast delay would easily solve any potential abuse though.

There are currently a few problems with this though, but 2 overwhelming ones standout:

Actually, the problem I see stand out is that mobs spam large AoE spells every chance they get in the name of making it hard. I wish there was a mob that hit hard, fast, but somehow didn't hit Paladins very hard, and only used single target abilities. Would make it much safer to stand near a mob instead of having sixteen people stand as far as possible while still being in casting/ranged attack range.

[Foldypaws]

1 last thing that SMN needs is to have Job Traits for their pets. Like Shiva have Magic Attack Bonus and other mage properties, Titan have defense Bonus and critical defense bonus stuff like that. Things that reflect them as summons, their element, and what each of them do. However, I believe all of them should have innate Double Attack/Triple Attack; The primes get it and our pets are definitely much higher level than they are.

Avatars do have job traits. All the celestials are BLM and have the MAB of a BLM equal to their level. (They probably have Magic Burst Bonus too, but I've not tested it.)

Carby is a WHM and has MDB and Auto-Regen (II).

Pretty sure Fenrir and Diabolos are BLM as well, but I'm not 100% on that.

[Saiken253]

Avatars do have job traits. All the celestials are BLM and have the MAB of a BLM equal to their level. (They probably have Magic Burst Bonus too, but I've not tested it.)

Carby is a WHM and has MDB and Auto-Regen (II).

Pretty sure Fenrir and Diabolos are BLM as well, but I'm not 100% on that.

If they do say have the MAB trait, it's definitely not as strong as a BLM, otherwise my BPs without TP would be doing damage very similar to a BLM. However just more MAB isn't all that SMN needs. Natural pet Double Attack/Triple Attack would be very much welcomed, just to help give our pets more TP for our magic and healing BPs. Also, Summoning Magic should more greatly affect our pets. Such as more ATK, ACC, MAB, MACC, Defense, MDB, Evasion, basically make Summoning Magic be something along the lines of every skill that we use as a character, our pets use; but scale it down a little cause it would indeed be a little too good to say have my near 500 Summoning Magic also count as near 500 Evasion(much higher than even a THF) at lvl95. I'm just trying to think of ideas to help this job come up to speed with the other jobs in a situation outside Soloing so that it becomes more appealing to have in a group again.

[Sutiban]

I think each job should have it's roll as defined by the "Holy Circle" or the other abilities that give people a "resistance" to a certain creature. Paladins get Holy Circle which increases their resistance to undead, DRK's get resistance to Arcana and so on. Those should be the backbone of each job.

DRKs = Pure DPS but lack an "awesome" weapon skill. I think they should be able to tank somewhat(not for this thread) and this job has been neglected through some of the updates. I do like the mp based weapon skill idea because that would force BRD and RDM to refresh them more often.

DRG = spam Drakesbane and can just solo on it's own(thus why we never see it in parties). I would like to see the wyvern grow in size as you level up to a full wyvern(not the size of Shinryu) and do other attacks than breathe and normal round robin.

SAM = pwnage as far as Great Katanas, decent at polearm and also decent at ranged so why can they ONLY use Namas Arrow(if you have relic bow upgraded) without Ranger sub? They can also solo light and darkness skill chains so they're a little OP right now. I'm sorry but when you can use 2 different abilities, not including 2 hr, and do 2 light or darkness sc's...that's kinda OP and no other job can do it(2 light or dark back-to-back...DNC can only self sc once).

THF = having TH as a trigger ability kinda messed up a lot of things. I'm not even sure if TH works with THF as a sub. I remember doing SAM/THF and doing 1k dmg with Tachi: Gekko at lvl 66. Steal and Mug on 5 minute CDs seems kinda high to me and maybe should be at 3 minutes(or less if they're 3 minute CDs now). THF should still be the "maintainer" of enmity.

DNC = Not much in terms of dps. Can self skillchain but I would like to see something new here but i can't put my finger on it. I'm doubting that the steps even do anything to the mob that's being attacked or i just don't notice much in terms of damage or magical damage increase.

PUP = DRG + MNK put together. I've never partied with a good PUP before or they just didn't do much in terms of party balance so i can't say much.

SCH and BLM = I don't play SCH but my BLM can pull enmity with just 1 spell even at the end of the fight so enmity dynamics would definitely need an overhaul.

SMN = depends on how you play. Normaly, i look for a smn/whm to help with healing if i can't find a whm, rdm or sch to heal the party. Most of the time, the SMN doesn't want to party because then they can't use their Avatars. There's still some Avatars that need to be added in order for me to actively play my SMN. I'm talking Phoenix(spelling?) and Bahamut and get rid of the "must use 2hr" for Alex and Odin. If i have a pact with these Avatars, i want to be able to whip them out whenever i want. Make their abilities cost a lot of MP and deal a lot of enmity to the SMN and not Avatar(enmity + for Avatar would then be a lot more helpful to the SMN). Each Avatar needs to be special and i don't mean in terms of Shiva = Ice and Titan = Earth. I mean like Titan = Tank, Carby = heals(i.e. smn casts cure 2 on someone, thus Carby uses Healing Ruby on them without smn going into BPs). Levy = regen/refresh...see where i'm going with this? I don't just mean whatever the Avatar's pressence thing is...make the Avatar much more Special than they really are.

MNK = Accuracy isn't the greatest at lower lvls so might need a boost in that catagory. I'm a firm believer that MNKs should be able to use 2 different fist/claw(h2h) weapons. Think of it from FF4 when you had an Ice Fist on your R-hand and a Flame Fist on your L-hand. This would open up the way for some pretty awesome debuffs from added effects on h2h weapons.(nin's can equip 2 different katanas so think of it like that). Some h2h weapons can have a small "shield" on them that would allow MNKs to tank and/or guard more often(my mnk is 95 and my guard skill is still below 100 so i rarely guard).

NIN = DPS nin would use Innin. I don't know about others but my nin gets enmity really quick standing behind a mob and doing a critical hit every hit add into that doing a ws about ever 10 seconds and now the DPS nin is actually Tanking. Defeats the purpose of using Innin at this point. Innin should have an enmity - effect on it so the nin can focus on elemental spells(if it already does and/or has this, then it needs boosted). San spells don't do any where near the same dmg as Tier 3 BLM spells so they need a slight boost. NIN also has the most Catagory 2 merits to pick from. Sange, Nin Tool Expert, and 6 elemental San spells....need to balance the # of "abilities" in Cat. 2 and/or make the 6 San spells learnable from ra/ex scrolls that need to be quested and add 2-4 more abilities to get from the gap the san spells would make. I wouldn't mind seeing an actual Throwing weaponskill(or a couple) that can be learned via merits....would actually make Sange useful since it would use up the shadows you have left to throw something(up to 5x dmg on ws if you have +2 boots).

Overall Balancing...

I thought some new weapon types would be kinda nice as well. I haven't seen a Flail or a 2h mace yet.

Gear - I really can't say much as far as JSE goes. I think haste+ on most of the AF3 pieces was a little bit overboard.

Server Balancing - Bare with me...

Relic, Mythic, Empy Weapons = As far as the couple of servers i've played on, none of the players(i'm generalizing here) do not help each other out with these unless you're in a Dynamis shell(but chances are, you're helping the LS Leader upgrade his/her weapon). Countless times i've been shouting for help for farming Briareus helms and NO ONE answers me. The sense of helping each other just isn't there anymore and it's turning me away from this game...also why i'm farming ancient currency as bst for relic weapons. That reminds me. The cost of ancient currency has remained the same even though the drop rate has been increased. So, if you're that DPS(or anyone for that matter), I think the amount of currency you need to upgrade Relic, Mythic or Empy should be at least halved, i.e. relic katana requires 400 Byne Bills, 1600 Whiteshells, 6100 Bronzepieces and 10,000 Byne Bills but with them being in half, people may start farming Dynamis again because they can upgrade faster and not spending countless months trying to get to the next stage. Empy weapons are the same way...50 Briareus helms would be 25, then 25 Sobek skins, then say 40 horns(would be 37.5 but good luck getting that half a horn to drop...). I know these special weapons shouldn't be here as far as DD balancing but think of it if you could lock in your weapon....what else would you need to change to increase your DD capabilities?

The book burns and Abyssea Alliance XP parties need to go away, FOR EVER. Yeah, it's a fast way to lvl up but NO ONE is learning what they're supposed to do or how that job is played. Instead of earning your levels, your levels are just being handed to you for being in a party. I could be lvl 30 and be lvl 95 in probably a day if i had the time(or i could be like 60% of everyone that plays and just AFK it). I've been in Abyssea parties and people were like "what's a magic burst? I just did one with Bio2." The game dynamics were bypassed with Abyssea and now it's time to go back to the roots of FFXI. /insert_Player_memory_wipe_here/ and make everyone start over at lvl 1 again without the alliance book burns and what not.

Sorry to put a lot into 1 post but these are things i've been thinking about for a while that i strongly believe(or wished for the relic weapons to cost less to upgrade) would make the game more enjoyable for me. Some people my agree with me, and well, most probably won't(especially the people that have upgrade relics already).

[Saiken253]

I also thought of a way to help PLDs with their DPS. Have something similar to Occult Accumen for their Healing Magic. More TP = more WS = more hate gain. Just a thought.

[Tagrineth]

I actually like the "jump stance" idea for DRG. Especially since - just an FYI for anyone unaware - Jumps do not feed TP. Would make DRG phenomenal for small group combat.

[wish12oz]

I think it would be fun if DRK got occasionally quickens casting time 100%, and got 20 TP for t3 nukes from occult acuman or whatever that gain TP froms pells trait is. You could interlace t3 nukes with melee attacks to increase WS frequency, and spam the new scythe WS for the MP back. It would make DRK handle differently then all the other melee jobs and be set apart as it's own thing.

EDIT: you'd probably need to reduce MP cost and increase recast time for this to be effective though.

[Kensagaku]

@Sutiban

I'm sorry, but you lost me several times on this post, especially your description of each job, DRG in particular. Being only a Drakesbane spammer? There's more to the job than that, buddy. Either you haven't played DRG yourself, or you don't play it well. Wyvern growing bigger? Wtf? Lumiere already blocks enough of my camera when he flies in at bad angles, if he gets any bigger I'm gonna have a hard time seeing. Not only that, but I imagine a larger pet is gonna create lag issues if you get it to full wyvern size. I don't know why anyone thinks a bigger wyvern is a good idea... frankly it's a waste of time that developers can use to create new content or better systems.

SMN - Your ideas for upping Avatars is far overpowered too. Avatars already have enough specialties to them, considering they have a native PDT-50%, they're cheap to cast and maintain (a good SMN can still be gaining MP back with an avatar back, I'm currently at +2 MP/tick without weather or Nashira hands even with an avatar out), and they've got a wide variety of abilities, several with utility. The only downside they have is the Blood Pact timer, which makes the utility abilities more likely to be brushed aside in terms of something more powerful. Sure, I'd like to see a bit more strength to their individual hits - right now they're only good for feeding TP outside of blood pacts - but for the most part, they don't need as much of an overhaul in the direction you suggest.

Also, I'm against getting Phoenix/Bahamut. I'd like them, don't get me wrong, but Phoenix was bound to the Far East as I recall, and again if memory serves, wasn't Phoenix reborn in Selh'teus? I highly doubt that we're gonna kill him to get that summoning pact. Bahamut's the Wyrmking as well; I doubt that he's going to stoop to help us. That aside, he's just simply too big. You summon him and he's gonna be a cause of so much lag. At best I could see a sorta ethereal summoning of him for a 2hr blast (I'd love to surprise enemies with a Gigaflare to the face) but rather in the sense of the old Astral Flows - once per BP: Rage and the effect lasts for 3 minutes.

NIN - Like throwing? Please view This thread. It has been rehashed several times that throwing would actually take away from a NIN's damage, and why, unless you make an overpowered Shuriken that can do 6x the damage of a regular melee swing. As for Elemental Ninjutsu - with the right builds, they can match T3s from BLM spells, albeit just barely or with difficulty. Namely MAB (there's augmentable gear and All Jobs gear, etc), Ninjutsu skill (which determines damage now), and Futae. The Elemental Wheel was good back when NINs didn't have the DPS that they have now as a means of holding hate while tanking, but right now all casting ninjutsu does is detract from your DPS. Also, Innin does have an emnity- effect to it when you're behind the enemy; you just still stack up hate too easily because hate caps are pathetically easy to reach nowadays.

And as for book burning... god I've heard this argument so many times before. It's not that people burning their job to 95 prevents them from knowing the job. As the statement goes: "Retards will always be retards." I hate the saying because it sounds so aggressive, but it's a true statement. People can EXP or they can burn, and if they can't figure out how to play the job then they're not going to learn it from either method. Most jobs take about an hour to get most of the easy/medium tactics learned, and then it's only EG experience that's going to teach them how to do the advanced stuff. The only thing that slow leveling is good for is new players until they understand the concept of enmity, etc. Skill-ups are nice too but for the most part (I'm looking at you, Enhancing and Healing ;~; ) they aren't too hard to get with an hour or two skilling by yourself.

[Foldypaws]

If they do say have the MAB trait, it's definitely not as strong as a BLM, otherwise my BPs without TP would be doing damage very similar to a BLM. However just more MAB isn't all that SMN needs. Natural pet Double Attack/Triple Attack would be very much welcomed, just to help give our pets more TP for our magic and healing BPs. Also, Summoning Magic should more greatly affect our pets. Such as more ATK, ACC, MAB, MACC, Defense, MDB, Evasion, basically make Summoning Magic be something along the lines of every skill that we use as a character, our pets use; but scale it down a little cause it would indeed be a little too good to say have my near 500 Summoning Magic also count as near 500 Evasion(much higher than even a THF) at lvl95. I'm just trying to think of ideas to help this job come up to speed with the other jobs in a situation outside Soloing so that it becomes more appealing to have in a group again.

It's the same strength as a BLM.

Your BPs without TP don't do the same damage as a BLMs spell for two reasons. 1) BLM wears a bunch of MAB gear and staves, on top of their traits. 2) The BPs aren't spells. They're elemental WS that just happen to share a name with spells.