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  1. #1
    Player Delvish's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok Rank 10
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Delvish
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99

    Samurai as intended

    I've never been one for cutting cookies and my job choices (SAM/RNG and SCH) reflect that mentality. Since this is the tank tactics forum, I suppose I'll get things started on a discussion on how SE intended SAM to turn out to begin with.

    Disclaimer: I am not asking SE to expand upon this potential, nor am I concerned with how SAM tank compares to any other tanking class or off-class. Simply put, if there is a situation and I am now the only available class, how do we pull it off?
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player Kuroganashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bismark
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Kuroganashi
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    SAM was initially meant to Tank and NIN to DD

    With Kannagi they made NIN a fairly well DD but now SAM needs to be improved so it can has better Tanking odds and Survival rate would go up by a lot
    (1)
    One can only blame oneself for his own mistakes in life. Defending Ring 1/30

  3. #3
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    Sam doesn't need shit and roflstomps Nin on dififcult mobs (outside Abyssea).
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player Tamoa's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroganashi View Post
    SAM was initially meant to Tank and NIN to DD

    With Kannagi they made NIN a fairly well DD but now SAM needs to be improved so it can has better Tanking odds and Survival rate would go up by a lot
    Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player Dragonlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria/Leviathan
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Dragonlord
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamoa View Post
    Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    -MDT is easy to cap on any job w/ shell V on, so that doesn't matter. There are a lot of -PDT all job items in game too, dark rings and twilight neck are -17%, nin is on metallon backpiece for another -4% and i'm sure there's more.

    Quite simply though, shadows>third eye, which is where sam falls short on tanking. It can't mitigate damage as well as nin. Now on NMs where any DD can tank, surely sam can as well. But there's a reason nin tanking caught on in the first place, and kannagi now allows nins to maintain hate better. Sam makes a decent tank or support tank on lesser NMs but other jobs overshadow it through dmg mitigation or dmg dealt.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player Delvish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok Rank 10
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Delvish
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Lets also remember Zanshin's boost to Seigan (and coincidentally Unkai Kabuto +2's Seigan augmentation). We'd have to find a good medium between -dmg and + Zanshin boosts, such as the difference between the Earth trial GK, or the 100% Zanshin rate GK.
    (0)
    Samurai Archery is said to be a thing of the past, but it isn't dead yet!

  7. #7
    Player Patriclis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Patriclis
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 95
    SAM was used as a DD by the community and has been geared towards that now with more TP + Weaponskill things, allowing it to put out a significant amount of damage.

    NIN was used as a tank by the community and has been geared towards that with more Enmity and evasion gear and other things that focus on tanking.

    It's irrelevant how a job was "intended" to be when it was made 5 years ago... what matters is how things are played now.
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player Tsukino_Kaji's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,029
    Character
    Tsukinokaji
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Just do lolsoboro/dmc with +85 eva like I do. ^^
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Nightfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    152
    Character
    Nightfyre
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamoa View Post
    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    It's true that SAM has greater flexibility with MDT gear, but NIN can get 26% MDT without too much effort now even ignoring weapon slots. Only expensive item is Mollusca Mantle, maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault. Their PDT options are only inferior to SAM's in one slot (legs, Gavial/Hydra +1 vs Darksteel +1) unless you're also factoring in Eisen Grip for some reason. The more expensive/time-consuming items (Arhat's +1, augmented rings/earrings, Jingang Greaves, Flume Belt, Mollusca Mantle if you can't cap with Shadow) are identical.
    (1)
    Last edited by Nightfyre; 12-03-2011 at 09:33 AM.

  10. #10
    Player Dragonlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria/Leviathan
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Dragonlord
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Delvish View Post
    Lets also remember Zanshin's boost to Seigan (and coincidentally Unkai Kabuto +2's Seigan augmentation). We'd have to find a good medium between -dmg and + Zanshin boosts, such as the difference between the Earth trial GK, or the 100% Zanshin rate GK.
    You bring up a good pint with the counter rate, i wasn't aware of the AF3 head's effect, however i can't find an activation %. As for the zanshin, that 100% proc sword comes from PW so its the 1% of sams you'd be talking about, not very practical. In addition, this hit can still miss. I don't see how zanshin factors into sam tanking other than increasing hitrate from 95%->98%ish.
    (0)

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