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  1. #1
    Player Delvish's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok Rank 10
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Delvish
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99

    Samurai as intended

    I've never been one for cutting cookies and my job choices (SAM/RNG and SCH) reflect that mentality. Since this is the tank tactics forum, I suppose I'll get things started on a discussion on how SE intended SAM to turn out to begin with.

    Disclaimer: I am not asking SE to expand upon this potential, nor am I concerned with how SAM tank compares to any other tanking class or off-class. Simply put, if there is a situation and I am now the only available class, how do we pull it off?
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player Kuroganashi's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bismark
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Kuroganashi
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    SAM was initially meant to Tank and NIN to DD

    With Kannagi they made NIN a fairly well DD but now SAM needs to be improved so it can has better Tanking odds and Survival rate would go up by a lot
    (1)
    One can only blame oneself for his own mistakes in life. Defending Ring 1/30

  3. #3
    Player Tamoa's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroganashi View Post
    SAM was initially meant to Tank and NIN to DD

    With Kannagi they made NIN a fairly well DD but now SAM needs to be improved so it can has better Tanking odds and Survival rate would go up by a lot
    Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Dragonlord's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria/Leviathan
    Posts
    206
    Character
    Dragonlord
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamoa View Post
    Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    -MDT is easy to cap on any job w/ shell V on, so that doesn't matter. There are a lot of -PDT all job items in game too, dark rings and twilight neck are -17%, nin is on metallon backpiece for another -4% and i'm sure there's more.

    Quite simply though, shadows>third eye, which is where sam falls short on tanking. It can't mitigate damage as well as nin. Now on NMs where any DD can tank, surely sam can as well. But there's a reason nin tanking caught on in the first place, and kannagi now allows nins to maintain hate better. Sam makes a decent tank or support tank on lesser NMs but other jobs overshadow it through dmg mitigation or dmg dealt.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player Nightfyre's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    152
    Character
    Nightfyre
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamoa View Post
    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    It's true that SAM has greater flexibility with MDT gear, but NIN can get 26% MDT without too much effort now even ignoring weapon slots. Only expensive item is Mollusca Mantle, maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault. Their PDT options are only inferior to SAM's in one slot (legs, Gavial/Hydra +1 vs Darksteel +1) unless you're also factoring in Eisen Grip for some reason. The more expensive/time-consuming items (Arhat's +1, augmented rings/earrings, Jingang Greaves, Flume Belt, Mollusca Mantle if you can't cap with Shadow) are identical.
    (1)
    Last edited by Nightfyre; 12-03-2011 at 09:33 AM.

  6. #6
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,043
    Character
    Babekeke
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault.
    Colossus's mantle is another fairly easy option to get in the back slot.
    (0)
    What if the Hokey-Kokey really IS what it's all about!?

  7. #7
    Player Tamoa's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Norway
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    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    It's true that SAM has greater flexibility with MDT gear, but NIN can get 26% MDT without too much effort now even ignoring weapon slots. Only expensive item is Mollusca Mantle, maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault. Their PDT options are only inferior to SAM's in one slot (legs, Gavial/Hydra +1 vs Darksteel +1) unless you're also factoring in Eisen Grip for some reason. The more expensive/time-consuming items (Arhat's +1, augmented rings/earrings, Jingang Greaves, Flume Belt, Mollusca Mantle if you can't cap with Shadow) are identical.
    You're absolutely right, sam has greater flexibility with -MDT gear than nin. I think that's what I meant, it just came out wrong. I also totally forgot about Mollusca Mantle, although I personally don't think it's worth 2.5-3mil. I'd probably get one though if nin was my main and the job I played 95% of the time. To be honest I think the reason I prefer sam tank to nin a lot of the time has to do with the people I have been playing with for the last 2+ years.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Kuroganashi's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bismark
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Kuroganashi
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamoa View Post
    Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

    Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.
    yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

    i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)
    (0)
    One can only blame oneself for his own mistakes in life. Defending Ring 1/30

  9. #9
    Player Tamoa's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Norway
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    1,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroganashi View Post
    yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

    i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)
    Actually no, I don't agree, seeing as for over 2 years I've been playing with a damn good sam (and war after abyssea was released) who pretty much blood tanks everything. 99% of the time I'm the one responsible for keeping him alive and status ailment-free. But I will admit that my views on war or sam tanking v/s nin tanking has been heavily influenced by this.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player Brolic's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
    Posts
    252
    Character
    Brolic
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroganashi View Post
    yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

    i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)
    not in the slightest, with the infinite mp of minkin or vw temps mobs are best tanked by the job that will kill it the fastest
    (2)

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