Samurai as intended

[Neisan_Quetz]

Something I dress up my mannequin with.

[scaevola]

Less talking about /WAR tanking, more testing on how Counterstance interacts with Seigan/TE.

NIN/MNK falls apart because you can't counter with shadows up, but you can counter and not lose TE by Seigan's very design, so ??????

[Alderin]

Less talking about /WAR tanking, more testing on how Counterstance interacts with Seigan/TE.

NIN/MNK falls apart because you can't counter with shadows up, but you can counter and not lose TE by Seigan's very design, so ??????

NIN/MNK has even more tanking potential. Don't know why your using that as an argument. Having counterstance active while recasting shadows means you are very unlikely to get spell interrupt during an already fast Utsusemi recast when shadows drop.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If you can counterstance tank it at that point you're better off bringing a better DD than Nin and having them /mnk (or just bring a Mnk).

Haven't tested Kabuto+2 and counter rate/does it stack with stance, will try and get around to it sometime before the year ends.

[Kuroganashi]

Only reason nin can tank better than sam in abyssea is this nice little thing called crit based ws, and add the right atmas to that. But abyssea isn't everything in this game.

Also, I'd say that sam survival rate >>>>> nin survival rate. Capping -PDT and -MDT is easy as sam. As nin, not so easy.

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

[Kuroganashi]

Less talking about /WAR tanking, more testing on how Counterstance interacts with Seigan/TE.

NIN/MNK falls apart because you can't counter with shadows up, but you can counter and not lose TE by Seigan's very design, so ??????

/MNK be nice for when nin came out, however, nowdays we got something called "Yonin" adds Counter+ and Emperyan armor +2 also Auguments that Counter Rate, so it would add a bit more but not enough to make a huge difference.

[Tamoa]

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

Actually no, I don't agree, seeing as for over 2 years I've been playing with a damn good sam (and war after abyssea was released) who pretty much blood tanks everything. 99% of the time I'm the one responsible for keeping him alive and status ailment-free. But I will admit that my views on war or sam tanking v/s nin tanking has been heavily influenced by this.

[Brolic]

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

not in the slightest, with the infinite mp of minkin or vw temps mobs are best tanked by the job that will kill it the fastest

[scaevola]

yet a good NIN doesn't get hit, so it is a Variable if the NIN gets hit or not and if the Enemy is better tanked as a NIN or SAM or MNK or w/e

i.e. TURUL a lot easier on MNK than it is on NIN (Thanks to the Counter Rate / Guard / PDT / MDT) , however some mobs are better tanked as a Blink Tank or EVA tank rather than Blood tank, Wouldn't ya agree my dear?)

None of that has anything to do with the fact that you can't counter with shadows up, but you CAN theoretically counter with Third Eye up. Furthermore, the better the NIN, the less useful Counterstance becomes, but a Seigan-using SAM is always going to have windows where she's vulnerable, making /MNK useful even if she doesn't benefit from Counterstance while TE's active.

I was screwing around a bit with SAM/MNK and it feels like I'm countering a whole bunch without losing Third Eye, but I don't know if that's because of Counterstance or the Zanshin buff. Just occurred to me, though (which shows you how much thought I've been putting into this question): we ought to be able to get an answer pretty easily by just using Third Eye without Seigan and seeing if we get Counterstance counters that don't strip TE.

[Delvish]

Man, gone for 3 days on honeymoon and this thread takes off.

Let me just add that Zanshin is now essential for SAM tanking, a thought that has barely been mentioned until these last few posts. Before you run your comparisons, let's make sure we are including the full potential of SAM tank (Zanshin, Seigan, Kabuto +2, TE+zanshin merits) because if you aren't going all in, you aren't going to tank even remotely close to any of the above.