Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 45
  1. #11
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault.
    Colossus's mantle is another fairly easy option to get in the back slot.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Delvish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok Rank 10
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Delvish
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlord View Post
    You bring up a good pint with the counter rate, i wasn't aware of the AF3 head's effect, however i can't find an activation %. As for the zanshin, that 100% proc sword comes from PW so its the 1% of sams you'd be talking about, not very practical. In addition, this hit can still miss. I don't see how zanshin factors into sam tanking other than increasing hitrate from 95%->98%ish.
    With the new zanshin updates to SAM, I have almost completely remerited and geared myself accordingly. With Hasso, we now have a chance to hit with Zanshin even if we hit (Ikishoten merits are applied to the second hit too so you can get damn near a triple attacks worth of TP). Seigan on the other hand, got an increased chance to counter based on Zanshin. With enough Zanshin, we are almost looking at a GK wielding MNK tank, and this would be our bread and butter of tanking.
    (2)

  3. #13
    Player Tamoa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    1,061
    Character
    Tamoa
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
    It's true that SAM has greater flexibility with MDT gear, but NIN can get 26% MDT without too much effort now even ignoring weapon slots. Only expensive item is Mollusca Mantle, maybe Lieutenant's Sash (time-wise) if you didn't do much Assault. Their PDT options are only inferior to SAM's in one slot (legs, Gavial/Hydra +1 vs Darksteel +1) unless you're also factoring in Eisen Grip for some reason. The more expensive/time-consuming items (Arhat's +1, augmented rings/earrings, Jingang Greaves, Flume Belt, Mollusca Mantle if you can't cap with Shadow) are identical.
    You're absolutely right, sam has greater flexibility with -MDT gear than nin. I think that's what I meant, it just came out wrong. I also totally forgot about Mollusca Mantle, although I personally don't think it's worth 2.5-3mil. I'd probably get one though if nin was my main and the job I played 95% of the time. To be honest I think the reason I prefer sam tank to nin a lot of the time has to do with the people I have been playing with for the last 2+ years.
    (0)

  4. #14
    Player Ritsuka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    210
    ya sam was the new tank not ninja. I'm not sure what they can honestly to sam tanking expect maybe letting it take more damage with out getting killed so fast. or maybe give it another 3rd eye type ablity sense ninja does have ichi and ni maybe make something like that for sam.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Shinzonx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San D'Ora
    Posts
    17
    Character
    Shinzonx
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    yeah sam needs more of a role in abyssea no one hardly use it but to dd in party you dont need a sam if you got a nin tanking for you cause nin can use some ws sam can that can be proced so what bother havin a sam and nin speed now u dont need the ability to give them TP like back in the day where it matter cause no whm's haste people any more so like maybe give sam more weapon choices or job abilities that can proc only sam 50+ can do
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player JRoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Klarissa
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    First off, wtf was that gibberish the above poster contributed? Ever hear of punctuation or proof-reading? Talk about a run-on sentence...

    Now this is just my two cents. Go easy on me guys...

    Sam was never intended to be a tank or a heavy dd. What is sam's greatest strength? The rate at which it gains TP. What is the easiest ability sam can stack on gear that compliments its greatest strength? Store TP. Sam pumps out weaponskills (inside or outsided abyssea) at an insane rate. They still hold the crown for most Skillchains opened or closed. That ability to open or close a skillchain, and that ability alone is the reason for sams existence. It's bread and butter, if you will. Add an experienced blm who is familiar with magic bursts to the mix, and you've got a deadly combo. This tactic is rarely seen anymore except for those "old-school" players who know how to win your "tougher than average" BCNM.

    While I'm here, I'll attempt to touch the topic of nin..

    Nin was never intended to be a tank or a dd. In my opinion nin was to become a stealthier version of rdm. Let's not forget that debuffing (or enfeebling) a mob is still to this day, one of nin's strongest abilities. How many times have you whms, schs, and rdms cast a debuff on a mob only for it to read in the chat log: "debuff has no effect on <t>."? Enough times I'm sure that that question made you all /grin. The nin elemental wheel is awesome for mages who rely heavily on nukes. Just in general, when you think of the traditional ninja, its strength lies in stealth and takes pride in its ability to go undetected by its target. When things get hairy, they use illusions and shadows to make their escape. To sum it up, I think nin was intended to be supporting role, much like rdm, but without having to rely on mp as their main source.

    While the above mentioned is my opinion of what roles said jobs should play, I completely understand that the community has lead it into a totally different direction. I have both jobs leveled to 95, and I can say that I play sam as a heavy dd and nin as a blink tank. I'd love a chance to play both jobs as I believe were intended, but am aware that if I tried, I'd either be laughed or voted out of the party/event, or simply asked to come as another job. So, the end result? I conform and reluctantly fit into the cookie-cutter mold laid out before me.
    (0)
    Last edited by JRoc; 12-06-2011 at 05:14 AM.

  7. #17
    Player Elanabelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Elanabelle
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    SAM/WAR can tank just fine, but really only shines as a tank when you merit Third Eye recast and your Parrying Skill reaches its maximum. Unfortunately, people are often unable to think outside the box, and they always merit only Meditate and Store TP on SAM. Also, skilling-up Parrying Skill is a pain in the butt, and (unless I've not caught on to an efficient way to skill it up) laboriously slow.
    If you have tons of support as a SAM tank, just use Hasso and damage-deal like an animal in-between Provokes. If you lack for support, use Seigan/Third Eye, and swap-in Damage-reduction equipment when your Third Eye drops.

    Ninja is still likely to always be a better tank if the mob uses single-target nukes and/or multiple Utsusemi shadows are able to block some of the mob's nastier TP moves. You could do SAM/NIN, but that's a subpar job combination in my opinion. Having either Hasso or Seigan up will gimp your recast timers on Utsusemi,. Your damage output is gimped on SAM/NIN by lacking Berserk, Warcry, and Attack Bonus. Also, NIN simply gets more shadows per cast.

    Bottom line, SAM can definitely tank, but it's typically not the best option. Personally, I think it's best to carry your tanking equipment on SAM at all times, just in case it's needed. However, despite my preparedness, I don't actually end up tanking on SAM very often. If you want to tank "right" on SAM, as I stated before, you gotta level up Parrying Skill and merit Third Eye, in my opinion.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    Parrying is floored against most VT mobs, or pretty much close to it... TE merits lost a lot of luster after seigan's introduction.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player Alderin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    367
    Character
    Alderin
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    What are you talking about, I have accidently tanked a handful of NM's on RNG/SAM due to overaggro with ws spam (in abyssea). I can only imagine the abilities SAM main has..

    @Tamoa - Your kidding yourself if you think SAM has a better survival rate to NIN. Utsusemi > Third Eye - Shadows block single target spells, Third Eye doesn't. That is one small example - not to mention NIN gets 9 shadows every 30 seconds. SAM gets lucky if they get 3-4. not to mention NIN's A- Evasion skill in comparison to SAM's B+. Sure gear can even that out - but why would you stack evasion when a job doesn't need to due to natural skill.

    As for PDT/MDT- gear, if you actually need to (which you don't really, due to the use of shadows) you can get just as much PDT/MDT on NIN as you can on SAM.

    SAM is a better DD outside abyssea then NIN. NIN (in voidwatch) is quite a useless tank against NM's that matter (ie. Voidwatch).

    Leave the NIN's and MNK's to shine in abyssea, let the PLD's tank in VW, and let SAM be played how it has been played for 5 years - DD.

    As for NIN's "Designed as a DD" theory - I agree with JRoc. That is rubbish. NIN was a supportive role similar to RDM. Debuff, elemental wheel, & shadows so it didn't get 1-shot if it somehow pulled hate. A Ninja is an assassin by history. They were trained to sneak around, kill the target and escape. Not stand there with guns (or shirukens) blazing and kill everything.
    (0)
    Last edited by Alderin; 12-06-2011 at 11:03 AM.

  10. #20
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    What are you fighting that still uses only single target spells?

    Third eye completely negates multihit Tp moves, Utsusemei doesn't. It also doesn't get wiped by AoE magic.
    (0)
    Last edited by Neisan_Quetz; 12-06-2011 at 11:07 AM.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast