SE's stance on Windower

[Mirage]

Yes, lightluggage does that, but that is also a plugin to windower, not windower itself

[Economizer]

It is possible to detect file reads. Thus, it is detectable with some work. There are a variety of other detection methods that could be used in tandem, and if SE really wanted to, they could crack down on it hard and give a temp ban warning to third party tool users en masse with the warning of a permaban if they detect you again. They would be well within their rights to do so.

Not saying that SE should or should not do any of those things, but they could.

[Arcon]

It was slightly detectable because of the packets being transmitted in rapid succession from Light Luggage plugin from my best recollection.

Not sure what you're talking about, but to my knowledge LightLuggage doesn't rapidly transmit anything. It lots or passes items in your treasure pool, with a random delay.

It is possible to detect file reads. Thus, it is detectable with some work.

That wouldn't work because technically Windower itself isn't "running". It's not a seperate process to FFXI, it runs a modified version of FFXI. But it doesn't modify any of the FFXI files itself, only the startup process, and after that it just reads information from memory and sends commands to POL (I don't think any plugin sends information directly to the server).

I don't know of any way to detect Windower at all, unless you're using it to make retarded macro-loops (like hitting the exact same macro every second for five days straight... I doubt a human could or would do that). Still, technically, it wouldn't be "proof" that a machine was at work.

[Shadowsong]

^
Also along those lines, they could see that everytime your character obtains a crystal, it is dropped .0001 seconds later lol. But again, that's not "proof" of anything.

[Chriscoffey]

Not sure what you're talking about, but to my knowledge LightLuggage doesn't rapidly transmit anything. It lots or passes items in your treasure pool, with a random delay.



That wouldn't work because technically Windower itself isn't "running". It's not a seperate process to FFXI, it runs a modified version of FFXI. But it doesn't modify any of the FFXI files itself, only the startup process, and after that it just reads information from memory and sends commands to POL (I don't think any plugin sends information directly to the server).

I don't know of any way to detect Windower at all, unless you're using it to make retarded macro-loops (like hitting the exact same macro every second for five days straight... I doubt a human could or would do that). Still, technically, it wouldn't be "proof" that a machine was at work.

Here :

Light Luggage:
This has been an issue for a while. I love how it works and what it does but it currently has problems. Specifically the amount of requests it sends to the server to sort a player's inventory.

Understanding the problem:
Every player that uses Light Luggage sends 120 inventory sorting packet requests per second to the server. The server then has to process and send the player 120 packets per second with the updated information. Not only does it spam the server, but it forces the server to spam you.

The math:
If 10 people are using Light Luggage then the server is sending a whopping 1,200 packets per second. In a 30 second duration that is 36,000 packets being sent out. That is just insanely unnecessary. Bad bad programming and shame on whoever did that on Windower.

With the new server auto-sorting for you this is reduced to 1 packet every 30 sec. per player. For 10 people, that reduces what was 36,000 packets down to 10 packets every 30 sec. This frees up a lot of resources and reduces the stress on both the server and the player.

I have no idea if the programming on Light Luggage was changed but to SE during this time that would be a HUGE red flag to windower being use if anything was mentioned in any chat log applicable. SE can ban you for anything at anytime according to their EULA so if they thought you were doing something you could potentially be gone. They could care less if you agree or disagree without hard data to prove they are wrong.

I think most of you "new( supposed old school)" players should do a bit more research about the game before you come in with experienced players to tell them "how it is" with jobs/windower/etc.

[Shadowsong]

How long have you been playing dude (inb4 NA PC release, which just makes it sad).
If they aren't even monitoring when I shout in Jeuno telling people where and how to install it, I don't think they are monitoring individual player's packets.
You can also turn LightLuggage off if you are that paranoid, what about that Coffey?

May I also suggest that you post a little better, rather than pissing off everyone in the thread. Us "new/old players" (whatever the hell that means) know exactly what we are talking about.

[Chriscoffey]

How long have you been playing dude (inb4 NA PC release, which just makes it sad).
If they aren't even monitoring when I shout in Jeuno telling people where and how to install it, I don't think they are monitoring individual player's packets.
You can also turn LightLuggage off if you are that paranoid, what about that Coffey?

May I also suggest that you post a little better, rather than pissing off everyone in the thread. Us "new/old players" (whatever the hell that means) know exactly what we are talking about.

lol You guys state there is no way SE would have a reason to ban you because windower can't be tracked(this includes plugins). I list exactly what some people were banned for because they were flagged due to packets being transmitted "out of sync" of the games typical packet transfer. You then change the subject to something totally irrelevant about me personally being paranoid about this. I am not paranoid because I understand the games dynamics and 3rd party tools that can be used. I don't really want to piss anyone off I just really hate people stating facts which aren't completely true.

Given the fact that; A) Its undetectable B) It's been around for nearly a decade C) Somehow banning users would cut their profits and D) It actually makes the game better without them actually having to do anything

This is one of those untrue statements and I am not here to argue semantics about a damn dll plugin that doesn't work without windower attached to it. The plugin typically comes already working when it was downloaded so chances are unless someone unloaded it they could/would have been flagged(if a GM looked server side:this doesn't mean instant ban) for abnormal packet transfer at that time. It seems to me that since you didn't know it was doing this most others would have been in the same unknowing boat as you were.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think my stance on Windower itself shows you how little they care, and that there are entire threads about how to install and troubleshoot it.
I also shout about windower all the time when people ask troubleshooting questions in game, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they did have a pattern recognition program though.
And it is undetectible I don't know what to tell you lol. Like I said, it would be as if they knew what tabs were open in your browser, or them knowing that your sister was playing WoW on your network. It's an independantly run program that simply overlays FFXI

edit: The infinite macro is badass lol, though I only ever really get a use out of it on RNG where I set it to spam ranged attacks on the <bt>

By giving SE the right, IE Opening as an Admin, they could in theory find out if you're using it. It's as undetectable as deleting a picture off your HDD, in that it's not. Hard to detect, yes! but NOT undetectable.

That said, by the fact the last thread only got closed because people started being foul to each other, I would assume they couldn't care less, unless a GM personally see's you shouting about it and is in a bad mood.

[Vold]

When they gave us windowed mode they said that they hope we consider it and use it over Windower. That's pretty much all they've ever mentioned on the subject. And considering that they never went back to fix their weak attempt at making windowed mode(with all due respect to the people who worked on it, I'm sure they tried their best)I'm gonna have to say they don't care enough to make a fuss over things. Windowed mode is hit or miss depending on the system and windower is pretty much always a hit from what I hear. It doesn't give you an advantage over other players really, it just makes life easier for yourself.

So it's like whatever, just don't use cheats to gain an advantage over others like claim/pos/speed bots and don't talk about them(like as in how to use them or whatever I guess) and there won't be any problems.

[Arcon]

I think most of you "new( supposed old school)" players should do a bit more research about the game before you come in with experienced players to tell them "how it is" with jobs/windower/etc.

If you believe that you are not an experienced player, so yes, let me tell you how it is: that's bullshit. You got that from a forum thread on a private FFXI server, and who knows how it would behave differently on there. That's assuming that guy isn't full of shit anyway, which I'm not convinced of.

lol You guys state there is no way SE would have a reason to ban you because windower can't be tracked(this includes plugins). I list exactly what some people were banned for because they were flagged due to packets being transmitted "out of sync" of the games typical packet transfer.

Further proof you have absolutely no clue what the hell you're talking about. There was nothing "out of sync" because there was no "sync" to be out of. Sorting packets means a command issued to the server if you change the sorting in your inventory. There is no automatic, regular sorting process, it happens when the user issues the command. There is nothing to synchronize.

LightLuggage sends a sorting command only when a new item comes into your inventory, that's it. Quite possibly the private server fucked up by sending that command to trigger it permanently.

I have no idea if the programming on Light Luggage was changed but to SE during this time that would be a HUGE red flag to windower being use if anything was mentioned in any chat log applicable.

Well, if you have no idea how it was changed, why the hell are you arguing about how it's been years ago (disregarding the fact that it's never been like that)? Windower, as it is, is undetectable, which is all that was stated, regardless of how it used to be. So stop misleading everyone with your half-informed and non-intelligent rants. You're a perfect example for the fact that old players don't have to be experienced or smart players.