BRD subjobs

[tendo64]

@Arcon

Yowza, someone takes their monthly subscription fee a little too seriously. Who cares about what you think is "the better way" until you're the leader of a party and can make those decisions. It's not like the BRD/NIN sits with his flag up, snickering maliciously as to what pick-up group he's going to sabotage. He's thinking for himself in an Abyssea-raised endgame where healers don't get punted for being crappy as long as they toss the Cure VI to the right person every now and then. Players needs to stay alive to support, yeah? BRDs support, and support only takes them so far, mage sub or not. Just as there are times where a WHM isn't enough, there are more times where a BRD/Mage just isn't enough. If a party needs a BRD, it's up to them to decide what the sub will be if they want more out of him. It's not up to you, you're not that special dude. Not everyone is in this game to squeeze 100% efficiency out of their time, so agree to disagree and be more constructive.

[Marcello]

I'm nearly always /nin. It's not my job to keep you alive.

I apologize, but I do not understand this statement at all. As a party member, regardless of job, my first responsibility is trying to make sure everyone stays alive. I understand the concept of acceptable losses but to simply let someone die because you do not feel like helping seems to hinder the cause. That being said, I do not wish to imply that is what you do, I am simply stating the wording of your statement could lead to misinterpretation.

I did see someone mention /dnc on here and was immediately dismissed. I had a few questions about this. The first statement is that /nin is the way to go for survivability, is it necessary to have that level of protection? Also, another mentioned that would just come a dancer, but is there that much to be gained from bringing a dnc over /dnc.

Thanks for the responses and I hope I did not offend as that was not my intention.

[Arcon]

So you're the person back before TAU that said blms had to sub whm, no exceptions? Perhaps even forcing them to main heal in the 30-50 range?

How.. what... where do you get this from? How is this in any way related to what I just said?

@Arcon

Yowza, someone takes their monthly subscription fee a little too seriously.

So do you if you feel you need to post to call me out on it.

Who cares about what you think is "the better way" until you're the leader of a party and can make those decisions.

First of all, it's not what I think is the better, it is the better way. Secondly, this is supposed to be a discussion, which is precisely what this is about. So apparently the people who post in here do care, or why would they participate? We're here to discuss the merits of BRD subjobs, because, well, that's what the thread is about. And if someone comes in here and proclaims (with pride) that it's not his job to keep us alive, I will argue that assertion. If that grinds your shit, feel free to leave.

BRDs support, and support only takes them so far, mage sub or not. Just as there are times where a WHM isn't enough, there are more times where a BRD/Mage just isn't enough.

Mage sub takes them further. That's my point.

If a party needs a BRD, it's up to them to decide what the sub will be if they want more out of him. It's not up to you, you're not that special dude.

Thanks for enlightening me, special dude. Again, do you realize what the purpose of this thread is? Discussion. I'm not imposing my playstyle on anyone. I won't tell Tsukino_Kaji to sub /WHM, if he wants to be lazy and sub /NIN that's his choice, or his leader's choice, what the fuck do I care? But if he comes on here and promotes his playstyle, he better be ready to be called out on it. Especially if he's being insulting while at it.

Not everyone is in this game to squeeze 100% efficiency out of their time, so agree to disagree and be more constructive.

That's bullshit, I can't "agree to disagree" and "be more constructive" at the same time, because if I don't make an effort to detail why his choice is stupid, others may read it and try it and gimp their own playstyle. It is, in fact, destructive.

If someone reads through an honest discussion and still chooses to sub NIN, it's his choice and I would never stop them (unless, maybe, it was my party, although I have a tendency to work around gimp setups instead of forcing people to improve their playstyle). However, if someone is swayed to sub NIN by false propaganda, promoted by people being lazy/stubborn/whatever, that is counterproductive and it should be called out.

Having said that, /NIN has its uses, but they're largely outside of the party realm. If you play /NIN, that's your choice, if you think it's good for your party you're either delusional, misinformed or trying to rationalize your bad choice and won't admit it to yourself.

[Flionheart]

I apologize, but I do not understand this statement at all. As a party member, regardless of job, my first responsibility is trying to make sure everyone stays alive. I understand the concept of acceptable losses but to simply let someone die because you do not feel like helping seems to hinder the cause. That being said, I do not wish to imply that is what you do, I am simply stating the wording of your statement could lead to misinterpretation.

I did see someone mention /dnc on here and was immediately dismissed. I had a few questions about this. The first statement is that /nin is the way to go for survivability, is it necessary to have that level of protection? Also, another mentioned that would just come a dancer, but is there that much to be gained from bringing a dnc over /dnc.

Thanks for the responses and I hope I did not offend as that was not my intention.

I missed out /DNC for one simple reason....

I don't have it levelled up It's on my to do list though, and I've heard in terms of DDing and soloing it's a very powerful subjob. I'm sorry if anyone misconstrued my lack of covering on the sub as a lack of faith in its powers, it's simply an unknown because I haven't had the time to try it out.

[Flionheart]

As for "Healing isn't my job" Arcon covered my opinion on it well. Going /NIN for an actual reason or tactical purpose is fine imo, but going /NIN just to shirk duties isn't a good way to play this game.

[Darkzeru]

subbing /dnc is irrelevant unless you're melee'n which brd shouldnt be doing....

[Flionheart]

subbing /dnc is irrelevant unless you're melee'n which brd shouldnt be doing....

1) Soloing
2) Proccing
3) Providing haste samba (Albeit weakened) and some spotty cures

There's times when you don't need to rely on Cure IV, Haste and Na's. Those times are few and far apart, but they do exist. You can even remove debuffs with Healing Waltz when it's called for.

[Olor]

I've been doing /dnc for skilling up dagger... offhand the haste procing dagger, haste samba and double march

[Jerynh]

All that arguing was super lame. Tsukino, you know you stated your opinion in a way that was meant to make you look like a tough guy, so don't be so surprised that someone called you out on it. This is the internet...everyone is a tough guy.

As far as your opinion goes, it really is lazy. The problem is, /nin has nothing to do. Shadows is the only thing that benefits you, and these days songs last quite a while. The point Arcon is making is, what are you doing between songs? Casting shadows over and over? Elegy and Threnody over and over? We're not asking you not to play your job, but the fact is that there are subjobs available for a reason.

DD are up close, take hate, get hit with AoE's (much more often than any support jobs), so shadows from nin quite often really are the best thing they can bring to the table in subjob choices, to limit the healing needed outside the tank. Plus, DD's usually have more to do than cast songs every 3 minutes.

Brd typically do not DD in major situations though, so why would you need /nin, when you could drop a Cure III-IV on yourself every so often when you do get unlucky and eat an AoE?

What happens when you're asked to go on a low-man Dynamis run? 2 DD's don't need a full whm for a party against EP -> EM's. Brd/whm brings many more options to the table, you really can't deny that.

If you just can't get out of your specialization rut, there is a trick to turning off your subjob, it just involves switching your jobs/subjobs to overlap over and over until it sticks. Do it. Get it out of the way, so at least people looking for a brd, whm, or whatever, will know what they're getting out of you. Don't be a hypocrite an only do it with brd. Never use a subjob again if you feel it is so unnecessary. Just play your main.