Cure Formula Changes

[Jerbob]

On the subject of Cure V and Cure VI, I think our unique healing magic spells should be more than just enmity-conscious situational (V) and extreme emergency situational (VI). I'd like to see both Cure V and Cure VI get a native bonus to "Converts X% of "Cure" amount to MP" like our empyrean Pantaloons +2, but have the amount relative to healing magic skill.

For Cure V, an example:
Cure amount converted to MP = 0 + (Healing Magic Skill / 150)
A Cure V healing its full potential (eg. 1100) on a target would return an extra 2.8%ish of cure amount to MP, reducing the cost (with +2 pantaloons) to 53MP. Lower healing magic skill would reduce the return, as would healing for less than full potential ("overhealing").

As a result, Cure V's MP cost becomes competitive with IV again, with the added enmity reduction bonus, and Healing Magic Skill has worth for Cure V. This also encourages white mages to use Cure V properly instead of just spamming it without looking at how much healing is actually required.

I haven't used Cure VI since the "update" but it heals significantly less now? I'm not sure what value of Healed >> MP would be required to make VI useful again. Indeed, with IV's new potency VI is even more pointless before even considering absurd MP cost. Something new is required, but I wouldn't want anything really complicated... perhaps have a strong regen as an additional effect based on Afflatus Solace power/Healing Magic skill in tandem with native Cure >> MP effects?

At this stage I'd probably be in favour of removing VI entirely and replacing it with something more creative... a over time healing magic effect that removes one debuff every X seconds based on healing skill? A spell that gives a buff that converts the next enfeebling effect someone recieves into a buff to the attribute related to that status effect's element, duration based on healing skill? I dunno, lots of possibilities.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Cure VI needs something, Cure V doesn't. The fact it has ridiculously low Enmity makes up for the extra MP.

Though I don't believe it should be in the form of MP conservation.

[Economizer]

While I'm not certain that Cure V needs any changes, I'll retort:

Cure VI needs something, Cure V doesn't. The fact it has ridiculously low Enmity makes up for the extra MP.

I've spent the last few days mostly spamming Cure III/IV on things as a White Mage. I've tried a few gear setups but most of them involve me wearing very minimal enmity down gear, and in fact, I cure in a Goading Belt for recast purposes. I think that should sink in for a moment. I wear no more then -15 net enmity in terms of gear, and usually way less, so I'd say I'm not really wearing as much as someone who has what they'd consider a perfect gear set.

Short of people dying, I have not gotten hate once, even when I was spamming Cure III, IV, lower tier Curaga spells or any other amount of spells that should be grabbing hate. There have been cases where I throw in a Flash or two here or there to skill up Divine Magic. Still no hate.

There have been fights were I was lazy (due to the inclusion of large amounts of Refresh) and tossed out a few Cure V's like they are candy, or fights where I've overcured excessively or went to older habits of mostly spamming Cure IV/V rather then III/IV, but for the most part I've been spamming III/IV with not only no penalty, but for great benefit for my MP efficiency.

I think what Cure V has going for it now isn't reduced enmity or a very slightly larger amount cured, but the fact that it is another cure timer to burn through without killing your MP pool to the shear amount that Cure VI does. That's pretty much the benefit now, because it is very hard to get hate with lower tiers of cure in most cases.

All that said, Cure VI is most definitely broken crap.

[Jerbob]

I suppose it comes down to whether you think the reduced enmity and extra few HP healed is worth that extra ~40MP. In some fights where enmity is a bit wobbly I am sure it will be valuable, but I think Cure V deserves a lot more, being as it is one of our signature spells. I think it should be objectively better on most/all fronts. Sorting out the MP efficiency would do this and let it function even better as our flip/flop IV/V pair of heavy duty healing spells.

The only reason I am so keen on sorting out MP cost for Cure VI is that I can't think of a suitable secondary effect that could possibly make the spell worth that sort of cost. Even if a suitable effect is found - removing multiple status effects or something - you've then got to find a situation in which you simultaneously need both obnoxiously expensive high potency healing and the full effect of the secondary function, or your efficiency goes down the toilet; you will also end up with people using Cure VI only for the secondary effect, and that kind of wastefulness does not sit well with me.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Since the update Cure 5 is almost trash. It gives only 20-25% more healing than cure 4 and at 1.5x the cost, the only thing it offers now is a slight -enmity. They said they wanted whm to be main healer but by not buffing cures 5 + 6 with this update, they just made sch a better healer since they can use -enmity spell on all their cures and cure 4 with light arts isn't far behind cure 5 (it's certainitly better mp use now to use cure 4 over 5 on ANY job if -enmity isn't a concern) on a whm and they can cast cure 4 with lower enmity than a whm can cast cure 5 if they use their -enmity spell.

Cure 6 was always trash, offering 1.5x the cure power of cure 5 at 2x the cost. Now cure 6 is even worse in reguards to mp vs. cure power use. Thx SE, thx.

I have no problem with ALL single tier cures being raised in power, the way it stands now is seriuosly lacking and is the EXACT opossite of what they said they wanted. They said they wanted to help rdm and sch assist in curing, but what it has done has trashed whm's best cure spell (cure 5) and made no adustments to the already inferior mp hog that is cure 6.

Summary: All single tier cures need this adjustment, not just cures 1-4. Cure 5 +6 are seriuosly lacking.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I suppose it comes down to whether you think the reduced enmity and extra few HP healed is worth that extra ~40MP. In some fights where enmity is a bit wobbly I am sure it will be valuable, but I think Cure V deserves a lot more, being as it is one of our signature spells. I think it should be objectively better on most/all fronts. Sorting out the MP efficiency would do this and let it function even better as our flip/flop IV/V pair of heavy duty healing spells.

The only reason I am so keen on sorting out MP cost for Cure VI is that I can't think of a suitable secondary effect that could possibly make the spell worth that sort of cost. Even if a suitable effect is found - removing multiple status effects or something - you've then got to find a situation in which you simultaneously need both obnoxiously expensive high potency healing and the full effect of the secondary function, or your efficiency goes down the toilet; you will also end up with people using Cure VI only for the secondary effect, and that kind of wastefulness does not sit well with me.

Then I agree on one thing. Replace Cure VI with a better spell, it wasn't needed before and it still isn't now. The question now lies in what kind of spell?

[Vyvian]

While I'm not certain that Cure V needs any changes, I'll retort:



I've spent the last few days mostly spamming Cure III/IV on things as a White Mage. I've tried a few gear setups but most of them involve me wearing very minimal enmity down gear, and in fact, I cure in a Goading Belt for recast purposes. I think that should sink in for a moment. I wear no more then -15 net enmity in terms of gear, and usually way less, so I'd say I'm not really wearing as much as someone who has what they'd consider a perfect gear set.

Short of people dying, I have not gotten hate once, even when I was spamming Cure III, IV, lower tier Curaga spells or any other amount of spells that should be grabbing hate. There have been cases where I throw in a Flash or two here or there to skill up Divine Magic. Still no hate.

There have been fights were I was lazy (due to the inclusion of large amounts of Refresh) and tossed out a few Cure V's like they are candy, or fights where I've overcured excessively or went to older habits of mostly spamming Cure IV/V rather then III/IV, but for the most part I've been spamming III/IV with not only no penalty, but for great benefit for my MP efficiency.

I think what Cure V has going for it now isn't reduced enmity or a very slightly larger amount cured, but the fact that it is another cure timer to burn through without killing your MP pool to the shear amount that Cure VI does. That's pretty much the benefit now, because it is very hard to get hate with lower tiers of cure in most cases.

All that said, Cure VI is most definitely broken crap.

When I tried WHM after the update, I found myself doing the same thing, Cure IV, Cure III, maybe in WoE when we had 2 bosses I tossed a couple Vs out because III wasn't going to cut it, never cast VI once.

In terms of the hate thing, Cure IV was never a hate issue unless you were playing with really bad tanks (dd now), even back in the earlier 75 days, you had those WHMs that absolutely never cast Cure IV (I have parses of it), I'd spam it because in terms of actual efficiency it was more efficient to cast (because V would overheal pretty much always in Dynamis). Now we heal for quite a bit more, but we also have Tranquil Heart IV or V added to the equation that I think is offsetting that.

I personally prefer to cast in more than that, because it is nice when things go bad, and I do like that feeling of being able to do whatever I want without pulling hate.

[saevel]

The update for Cure III / IV was nice for anyone not a WHM. For WHM's it made your healing cheaper overall. Your still not going to be replaced by a RDM, might be with a SCH in extreme situations. For big damage that is what Cure V is for. Cure VI is worthless currently.

Cure V / VI need some special effect to make them more attractive. I would think they would be given a higher cureskin cap and longer duration (60s vs 30s). Also give WHM Erase II which would be capable of removing multiple status effects at once.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hello I have a issue related to the Storage slips number 13 is not letting me store my Thief Relic hands +2.
How can I fix this issue I have tried to buy the same slip 3x now and I still cannot store the upgraded relic hands they have no augments on them or trials and the GM's told me to come to this forum so I finally gave in.
By the way this is my first post/reply so I have no idea what I'am doing on here other then trying to seek help with in game issues I could not figure out how to make my own thing to talk about the issue sorry if this gets in the way of a conversation.

You can only store the augmented versions, so the ones you get for 30k EXP in Dynamis.

[Economizer]

Hello I have a issue related to the Storage slips number 13 is not letting me store my Thief Relic hands +2.

Which is not related to this thread's stated topic of Cure Formula Changes. Please refrain from off topic posts.

Welcome to the official forums. The correct place for you to post your concern would probably be in the general section, however I can tell you now that you need to get the second augment to be able to store your equipment. Given that you are on my server you can just send me a tell and I'll try to answer additional questions. In the future please try to post things where they belong though - if you aren't sure you can always post a new thread in the General Discussion section.

If you have anything to add which is on topic, that is to say, anything related to healing really, feel free to add it, we could always use more feedback and research about healing.