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  1. #51
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    She/he's just screaming. Pretty much everything she posted was either ad-hominem or factually incorrect. The Diaga II reference alone say they have never actually played RDM now even given it a look.

    Most BLU's leveled BLU to get away from RDM, they would absolutely hate the idea of being forced back into a healer / support role. I'm talking fanatical level hate here, you can't reason with that.

    BLU gets three medium to high potency cures all on separate timers. The base cure power of M.Fruit and P.Embrace was balanced using 0 healing magic skill, once you add healing magic skill it then surpasses Cure V, heck P.Embrace even has a nice +attack / magic attack bonus tacked on. Unlike RDm who can only do Cure IV -> Cure III -> Cure IV, a BLU can cycle P.Embrace -> M.Fruit -> Cure IV for faster and cheaper healing then a RDM could even dream of. They can go /WHM for haste support if needed or the better /SCH for significantly higher healing magic skill and another form of aoe stoneskin / regen II along with a potent Drain / Aspir. LA/DA does not effect blue magic skill, meaning the BLU can be in DA mode and still get cheap fruits / embraces off. Healing Breeze was amazing at 75, Curaga II is a 120MP spell, Breeze which has the same cure power is only 55MP. It's since got weaker but SE then introduced White Wind which is crushingly powerful. WoP is aoe erasega, it has a 20s recast timer and 36mp cost, BLU gets native FC and haste so that timer can be lower, much lower. No other job in the game can remove status ailments as fast as a BLU.

    WW is based on max HP not current HP, meaning a BLU should macro in as much +cure pot and +HP gear as possible for it.
    The formula for calculating HP recovered is floor(MaxHP/7)*2.
    1500 HP gives 428 base cure power, after some +cure pot you can get 500~ish aoe healing for 145MP, or slightly more expensive then a single Curaga II which is 200~220 with the same +cure pot. Closest comparison is Curaga III at 180MP.

    Leave it to a BLU to think 106MP P.Embrace is a "MP whore" compared to WHM's 135MP Cure V. Their so comfortable with ridiculously cheap spells that they never stepped back and saw what every other class had to deal with. Just imagine if the heavy damage BLU spells cost 180~200+ MP each.

    This one isn't a fact about the game, so I can't really confirm this as easily, but I would think that this is not what Saevel is implying, but I'd have to check with him first, since I don't want to put words into his mouth.
    Mediocre at everything =/= worst at everything. RDM's ability set at 95 is largely the exact same as it was at 75, minor tier ups like Refresh II and the Emp gear making buffs last longer aside, the proposed "support" play style is the same. Haste -> Cure IV -> Paralyze II *RESIST* -> Cure IV -> Cure IV -> Slow II -> Haste -> Dia III and rinse / repeat. Cure IV is no longer enough on it's own, and SE has nerfed enfeebles to mean nearly nothing, other then Dia III. When you combine these two facts, and they are facts as everyone has pretty much stated, RDM really starts to become a dead job. You can try really hard, get the best melee and mage gear possible, macro long complex macros to optimize for those spells, and you'd still not scratch what a AF WHM or BLU could do.

    Rather then complaining I've been looking for things to politely request SE to add / modify. They do read these forums, they make notes, and while they may not listen nor have the time to care, occasionally we can get a message through. If we keep putting the word out that we need something more, eventually they'll do ~something~.
    (2)

  2. #52
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    The funniest/saddest thing is: Whether you're a melee enthusiast or prefer the magical side of RDM the biggest fix to both these sides is to kill the Enhancing cycle by giving RDM AoE enhancing capability. In no game should part of a job be decided by the need to cast the same spell on the same people every 2+ minutes.

    Doing this would fix a major issue allowing focus on fixing other things such as Enfeebling Magic, Melee Skill etc....
    (1)

  3. #53
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Here cure calculator.

    http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/c...alculator.html

    At this you can see a BLU's M.fruit destroying Cure V for efficiency, P.embrace is just M.Fruit +110, it rivals Cure V in sheer potency.

    At 95 /WHM gives 144 healing magic skill and /SCH gives 310. At 140 MND 90VIT and 18% cure potency (not terribly difficult to achieve) you get.

    226 Wild Carrot at 37MP
    238 Cure III at 46MP (44 under LA)
    481 Cure IV at 88MP (80 under LA)
    607 Magic Fruits at 72MP.
    717 P.Embrace at 106MP, +Attack / Magic Attack bonus.

    In comparison,
    843 Cure V at 135 MP (122 with LA)

    Another thing of note is that both M.Fruit and P.Embrace are just Cure V (-200 cure power for MF, -90 for PE), they share in it's soft / hard caps being significantly higher then what is possible with Cure IV / III. Also if / when SE alters the cure formula, this can/will directly boost Blue healing magic.
    (1)

  4. #54
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher View Post
    The funniest/saddest thing is: Whether you're a melee enthusiast or prefer the magical side of RDM the biggest fix to both these sides is to kill the Enhancing cycle by giving RDM AoE enhancing capability. In no game should part of a job be decided by the need to cast the same spell on the same people every 2+ minutes.

    Doing this would fix a major issue allowing focus on fixing other things such as Enfeebling Magic, Melee Skill etc....
    No sh!t, its was getting pretty ridiculous back at 75. Now with full emp gear it's mildly tolerable cycling haste around, really wish I could do more to boost the overall capability of the group. Either through buffing party members or by crippling the targets stats. If SE would create a RDM native version of the ele DoT's (Choke / Burn / ect..), have them based on enhancing magic and with significantly better INT scaling and no DoT effect, then this would greatly serve our purposes.

    http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Elemental_Debuff

    At 150INT your only doing -13 stat at 5hp/tick. Doesn't seem to go any higher then that. -13 AGI is -6.5 evasion or +3.25% hit rate ... yeah whatever. Depending on your group you could be raising everyone's crit rate, or not doing a damn thing to it. Also due to their elemental alignments you can't stack -VIT and -AGI. Now if they had ones that did -20/30/40 to the enemy status, then it would rock, even if you could only have one up at a time you could still pick the point to exploit the most.
    (0)

  5. #55
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    Sadly, one of the best debuffs at the moment for harder Nms is Impact, which is Cloak only.
    (1)

  6. #56
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz View Post
    Sadly, one of the best debuffs at the moment for harder Nms is Impact, which is Cloak only.
    How hard is this to land for full effect / duration? I've been debating going out and getting a clock for RDM/SCH with parsimony. Are NM's terribly resistant to it, or does it follow regular elemental magic accuracy rules?
    (0)

  7. #57
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,169
    Only information I have is from others since I've never seen it (seen more mails..) Not sure for VW but most other NMs don't seem to resist the effect heavily, last for 3 mins when it does.
    (0)

  8. #58
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz View Post
    Only information I have is from others since I've never seen it (seen more mails..) Not sure for VW but most other NMs don't seem to resist the effect heavily, last for 3 mins when it does.
    Then I guess I'll be spamming Shinryu soon. Still need Mail / Helm for my PLD so this is a good excuse to spend crour on my alt. Need to save mine for Apademak spamming.
    (0)

  9. 11-28-2011 10:52 PM
    Reason
    lack of sleep induced idiocy

  10. #59
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    Just throwing this out there but maybe SCH and RDM can get a Job Trait unique to them at lvl 99 allowing them to expand upon what is accessionable? Although I can see how this can be taken as encouraging buff-cycles while at the same time lessening having to keep said cycles up. Or make it into two separate JAs and have them mirror WHM's Afflatus JAs, maybe have one unlock the accession restriction on buffs and one JA that allows buffs to be immune to Dispel for X amount of attempts.

    That way each stance allows for you to buff and to do so excellently and in ways a WHM cant since they can already heal in ways that you can't. Of course that is just an idea im throwing out there but RDM and SCH both need something since MP efficency was a niche now taken away as the game plays with larger numbers then as it once did. I think that SCH and RDM will carve their final territory at the end of the job road map in the realms of buffs/debuffs and DoTs.

    **I understand the above JA proposals are broken in the vacuous state delivered so naturally if such things were in game they'd have certain riders attached to not be so broken.

    But RDM and SCH DO NEED something to happen since all jobs should be excellent at the things they do and SCH and RDM along with other jobs just aren't there yet....but hey what a thing it would be if they ever do make it there. Imagine what NMs would have to take the field to be deemed "endgame content" at that point?

    or not

    Ignore me!!
    The issue with this is that gaining a JA/Trait to unlock Accession for RDM would make no sense as it'd be a job buff for a subjob bonus.

    It's why I want a unique (I say unique) buff for RDM to do AoE effect buffs, while I respect it removes a bonus aspect of SCH, I just don't think Buff Cycles are good gameplay, I'd be open to just Phalanxga, Hasteaga and Refreshga I-II. Though ideally Stoneskinga and such would be nice, I'd be fine with SCH still having unique buffs for themselves to cast or as /SCH
    (0)

  11. #60
    Player Alpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My Allegiance? I'm usually on whatever side Zordon is on
    Posts
    285
    Character
    Alpheus
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Hence the lack of sleep induced idiocy of needing a main job trait to make a subjob selection actually work lol

    *edit* think u responded as i re-read and proceeded to delete the post or something.

    heading to bed long day but point well taken tho
    (0)
    Last edited by Alpheus; 11-28-2011 at 11:15 PM. Reason: lack of sleep induced idiocy...again lol

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