[dev1049] New weapon skills

[Rezeak]

While i believe most of the idea are probably best found in the job forums i just want to ask for a few things.

All the weapons skills to at least be useful.

As in if you add a DD weapon skill it's main purpose should be DMG.

Nothing should be weaker than what we had at 75 and should be near the level of empyrean weaponskills and in some cases exceed them (scythe,great katana and polearm)

For Mage WSes

WHM should gain a Job trait that converts hp cured -> tp
BLM SCH should have a better improved Occult Acumen (BLM may as well have it at the same level as SCH)
RDM should get a lower teir version of hp cured -> tp and Occut Acumen.

The above would allow SE to make useful Weapons skills for the mages.

[brayen]

What is wrong with the empy GK WS?

the idea of mage gaining tp would be good, i just don't see the dev team getting on board with it as you have seen how weak occult acumen is.

I do hope they are careful with the new WS. Keep them at least strong enough to make suitable upgrades for people who do not have time for an emp or relic en devour.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

BLM and SCH especially would still always lose TP when they changed their staff, and if they didn't change their staff they'd be gimping themselves and that's absurd.

Unless they do it that you keep TP as long as you change to the same weapon type then mages will never gain enough TP.

[Vold]

I don't think any freebie WSs should ever out perform ultimate weapon WSs or even be in the same league as them. At best we can expect these new WSs to have their uses for the majority who aren't wearing the best weapons. Something that replaces multihit stuff at 55-60 would be nice. It's ok and all for rampage and sidewinder and so on to still be relevant I guess but we're about to be level 99. That's stretching it pretty good.

[Urteil]

Why should scythe/GKT/etc weapon skills be better than empyrean ones, because you play those jobs?

Why are you advocating giving other jobs spells -> TP when the job that initially had it doesn't even get use out if it?

Give DRK Occult Acumen X so it actually makes sense?

This OP doesn't make sense?

Weaponskill ideas where?

???

[Dfoley]

Sigh the reason he said gkt/scythe/polearm is because they dont crit. So their damage caps a lot lower then their criting counter parts.

Who said it had to be a freebie? These could be quests that require 100 heavy metal plates and 2000 wsp to unlock, in which case I am fine with them being more powerful then empy ws since that is already more work.

That said:

• Give each job a job specific one (aka h2h has 1 for pup and 1 for mnk)
• Make them quested and not freebie
• Make the quest on par with nyzul where the farther you progress the less wsp you need to unlock
• Make them weapon independent, so we dont have to equip a specific weapon to use it
• Use regular wsc properties. DD dont want to load up on vit for a ws, vit is fine for a paladin, but not a monk, pup, war, sam etc.
• They should be stronger then the evel 71 ws and the level 80 freebie for sure. I would prefer on par with at least empy ws (with no after math obviouslly)

EG
PUP - 6 Hit ws, chance to crit/dmg depends on automaton hp %, where high hp = good, WSC = dex
MNK - 7 hit ws, chance to crit/dmg depends on tp
DRk - 4 hit ws, chance to crit/dmg depends on hp% where you need low hp to deal high dmg/crit, wsc = int!....jk ...= str


just examples of my suggestions

[uptempo]

Yeah im of the mind set that the 99 ws should outperform all the other weapon skills we got on the way up no way a low level ws guillotine or raging rush should out perform whatever we get at 99.

[brayen]

@ Dfoley

that sounds awful, why make every WS crit? The last thing they need to do is turn an already old game even more stale by making all jobs the same. the reason he mentions GK is for no reason, the empy GK WS is a good ws. empy scythe polearm and axe are the only ones that lack anything (due to mods, ftp value and low cratio bonus when they are suppose to ignore def). If anything they should be mindful of new WS and realize the value of these other aspects (cratio, ftp, mods, etc) instead of making everything the same, gives everyone even more reason to stay war with that everything crit mentality.

[Dfoley]

@ Dfoley

that sounds awful, why make every WS crit? The last thing they need to do is turn an already old game even more stale by making all jobs the same. the reason he mentions GK is for no reason, the empy GK WS is a good ws. empy scythe polearm and axe are the only ones that lack anything (due to mods, ftp value and low cratio bonus when they are suppose to ignore def). If anything they should be mindful of new WS and realize the value of these other aspects (cratio, ftp, mods, etc) instead of making everything the same, gives everyone even more reason to stay war with that everything crit mentality.

That is your oppinion obviouslly.
GK weapon skill for the empy weapon is fine for outside of abyssea, you are correct. However, it is just that. 'Fine', not awesome, fantastic,or stupid good. It was just a linear step up from what SAM had been getting before, and it wasn't even a big linear step up because it was barelly better then current ws. While (most) other jobs got rediculously stupid nice ws. MNK WAR and NIN as good examples.
The only good thing about the GK ws was the skill chain properties.

The problem with the rest of your statement is you really dont understand those FTP cratio mod etc. Yes they play a role, but if a ws can crit its damage potential changes drastically.

EG to balance a ws against Victory smite:
4 hits (no chance of crit)
You would need ftp mods of over 3.0
You would need at least 1 wsc modifier of 75% + (more likely 2)

At that point it is just as broken and similar as a world where everything crits....so how is it any different?

[hiko]

@ Dfoley

that sounds awful, why make every WS crit? The last thing they need to do is turn an already old game even more stale by making all jobs the same. the reason he mentions GK is for no reason, the empy GK WS is a good ws. empy scythe polearm and axe are the only ones that lack anything (due to mods, ftp value and low cratio bonus when they are suppose to ignore def). If anything they should be mindful of new WS and realize the value of these other aspects (cratio, ftp, mods, etc) instead of making everything the same, gives everyone even more reason to stay war with that everything crit mentality.

yes it's good, but, like kaiten, doesnt have pdiff boost making gekko situationaly better,
a WS anybody could use @cap75 shouldn't still be best