Wtf SE

[Economizer]

It is half ass, OA yields back to little tp, there should be a huge tp boost whenever a drk cast its elemental nukes.

The issue isn't the TP gain rate - DRK gets ~25% of the spell cost back in TP with the right gear. This is not only the best of all jobs with the job trait, but it is fairly amazing - a 100 MP spell will net you 25 TP! No, the issue for Dark Knight is that the spells take a long time to cast compared to melee and interrupt melee.

Dark Knight could either use faster spells, or spells not interrupting melee cycles. Well, that or a bunch of mobs that you have to fight at range or can't hit with melee for parts of the fight and get to WS every 15-30 seconds (depending on what spells you are using). Ultimately, Dark Knight's nukes don't outpace melee damage from the TP phase - if they did, Dark Knights would nuke for TP instead.

A basic understanding of game mechanics and this thread would have never happened.

[Urteil]

If the spells take too long to cast, so they are never used, resulting in 0 tp gain. Thats insufficent tp gain.

If they were shorter to cast, but resulted in terrible tp gain and were never used. Thats insufficient tp gain.


So because of how the spells mechanically work, and the mechanics of the JA the 25% return isn't worth it because of the combination of crap casting time/damage of our magic/not being worth giving up melee swings.

Mechanics!

[Cljader1]

The issue isn't the TP gain rate - DRK gets ~25% of the spell cost back in TP with the right gear. This is not only the best of all jobs with the job trait, but it is fairly amazing - a 100 MP spell will net you 25 TP! No, the issue for Dark Knight is that the spells take a long time to cast compared to melee and interrupt melee.

Dark Knight could either use faster spells, or spells not interrupting melee cycles. Well, that or a bunch of mobs that you have to fight at range or can't hit with melee for parts of the fight and get to WS every 15-30 seconds (depending on what spells you are using). Ultimately, Dark Knight's nukes don't outpace melee damage from the TP phase - if they did, Dark Knights would nuke for TP instead.

A basic understanding of game mechanics and this thread would have never happened.

How can you get a 25% return rate for OA, Please explain this to me in detail and what gear augments OA besides AF3 drk boots?

[Urteil]

He's talking about Oneiros rope + Bale Sollerets +2. Also since OA is affected by store TP you get some crazy returns.

However the problem is the casting time, and the lack of a a few things, most notably Magic attack Bonus Tier I.

Our magic is slow and suffers form the lack of synergy in our job traits to boost, we have good gear but its just so slow and hinders TP gain when in theory this was supposed to enhance it.


The real way to make this work would be to give DRK the equivalent to Holy/Holy II, make it based on INT Dark Magic Skill and MAB and be done with it.

[Cljader1]

I didn't even know store tp affected OA, but ill be nice if they made and tier 3 nukes useful since SE insist on filling up are spell list with them.

[Leonlionheart]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

[Urteil]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

I like the idea but we both know its too complicated for them to implement.

I was just hoping for Holy/Holy II Dark Magic reskins and insta spell-tping thataway.

My ultimate dream was having Dark Seal boost the damage of our next Dark Magic spell, because its useless anyway.

But whatever.

[Dart]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

oh thank god, i was starting to think that I was alone.

[Urteil]

oh thank god, i was starting to think that I was alone.

In reality his post/idea/method.

Would be amazing, but I fear its a pipe dream.

I'll continue sacrificing cats to my emo shrine to see if it comes about however.

[SpankWustler]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

A far more simplistic way to implement this would be to just use the spell's recast reduction as a factor in Occult Acumen. The only big issue I can see popping up is that recast reduction caps at 50% but delay reduction caps at 80%.

Less ideal, but seems like a more realistic change somehow.