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  1. #171
    Community Rep Camate's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,712
    Puppetmaster adjustments cont.

    Flame holder
    We feel that the current stats and functionality aren’t reasonable when considering the space needed to equip this attachment. With this said, if we were to make so the power is shared with other attachments (for example, making it so it doesn’t consume a Fire Maneuver, as was suggested), we would have to increase the capacity cost to be higher than it is currently.

    However, since I believe that attachment uses differ from person to person, instead of the above adjustment, we are looking in the direction of adding a different attachment that has similar stats to the Flame Holder so you will be able to choose the proper one to use based on the situation. (The addition of this attachment is planned for after the level cap increase to 99.)

    Also, when there are changes made with Test Server updates, we also update the content posted in the “Testing In Progress” forum, but the development team and QA team have been testing and making adjustments up to the last minute, more than you can imagine.

    As a result, there may be times that we cannot announce the specific changes right away and we appreciate your understanding. (Don’t worry, we aren’t trying to hide anything!)
    (6)
    Devin "Camate" Casadey - Community Team

  2. #172
    Player Dfoley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    427
    Character
    Raijitsu
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Also of note, was the the next test server update should include the change in the healing priorities in regards to recovering hp, light maneuvers, and -na spells.

    Previouslly it was 3 light in order to make cure > na. Previouslly they had mentioned it would be more than 1 (aka 2+ maneuvers).

    I really think this should be reconsidered and be 1 + light maneuvers. I am not sure why camate didnt translate it as it was part of the previous post.



    Flame holder
    v1 Higher capacity cost - doesn't consume maneuvers
    I dont think most people could justify using it at all if the capacity cost went up. Also would this be weaker than the current one?

    v2 same capacity cost - consumes maneuvers
    Personally if you have both as an option, v2 better be a larger affect per maneuver since you sacrifice more to use it.


    Either option
    Both are terrible in regards to fire maneuvers triggering the wrong WS.

    Suggestion
    With flame holder equiped (only) - Fire maneuver triggers the strongest available (highest level) ws only. No fire = normal trigger, so cannibal blade would still be dark on VE. The only issue is WS with fire as their normal trigger. And if you want to trigger an inferior WS I am all about making it harder (Fire + water maneuver), a combo that wont be used often in a situation where you are looking to use flame holder
    (4)

  3. #173
    Player TimeMage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    118
    Character
    Frejan
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dfoley View Post
    Suggestion
    With flame holder equiped (only) - Fire maneuver triggers the strongest available (highest level) ws only. No fire = normal trigger, so cannibal blade would still be dark on VE. The only issue is WS with fire as their normal trigger. And if you want to trigger an inferior WS I am all about making it harder (Fire + water maneuver), a combo that wont be used often in a situation where you are looking to use flame holder
    This would be awesome, seconded.

    Also, if Flame Holder + Inhibitor were up, the auto would only SC if it could use its highest damaging WS. Win/win if this happened.
    (1)
    Frejan from Ragnarok, at your service.

  4. #174
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    6,583
    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    It doesn't really bother me that fire maneuvers are consumed by the flame holder, what bothers me is that you can't use it effectively without making the automaton use an undesireable WS. The power/attributes of the attachment itself are okay (other than it doesn't seem to affect Cannibal Blade if I'm not mistaken). It's only the mechanics.
    (5)

    Someone care to tell me what's wrong with a couple Yukes?
    Check out http://ffxi.gamerescape.com- the new home of FFXIcleopedia and its founders!

  5. #175
    Player xbobx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    575
    Character
    Shuffles
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Dfoleys flameholder suggestion, me like. I firmly believe we need a way to force those weaponskills. I hate shooting off a bone crusher by accident.
    (0)

  6. #176
    Player Theytak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    485
    Character
    Theytak
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Puppetmaster adjustments cont.

    Flame holder
    We feel that the current stats and functionality aren’t reasonable when considering the space needed to equip this attachment. With this said, if we were to make so the power is shared with other attachments (for example, making it so it doesn’t consume a Fire Maneuver, as was suggested), we would have to increase the capacity cost to be higher than it is currently.

    However, since I believe that attachment uses differ from person to person, instead of the above adjustment, we are looking in the direction of adding a different attachment that has similar stats to the Flame Holder so you will be able to choose the proper one to use based on the situation. (The addition of this attachment is planned for after the level cap increase to 99.)

    Also, when there are changes made with Test Server updates, we also update the content posted in the “Testing In Progress” forum, but the development team and QA team have been testing and making adjustments up to the last minute, more than you can imagine.

    As a result, there may be times that we cannot announce the specific changes right away and we appreciate your understanding. (Don’t worry, we aren’t trying to hide anything!)
    Again, I'm going to propose that instead of adjusting flame holder in any way, you adjust how the automaton performs weapon skills.

    As it stands, the automaton will perform weapon skills in an INCREDIBLY unintelligent manner, both with and without the inhibitor (the inhibitor changes how it does weapon skills, but it changes it to an equally unintelligent and undesirable method). Without the inhibitor, the automaton will randomly WS between 100 and 300 TP, with the likely hood of WS increasing with how much TP it has (I have only ever once had my puppet hold TP to 300%, but wow was I annoyed), typically this results in the puppet wasting 30~70 TP every WS, occasionally more when it decides to hold past 200%.

    Additionally, because we have to use maneuvers to force specific WS, we're limited on our ability to use maneuvers for what they're intended for, enhancing our attachments. A perfect example of this is Valoredge and Cannibal Blade. I've played pup since the week of the ToAU release, and not once have I ever equipped valoredge with a dark attachment, since it has no mp and the only non-mp related dark attachment, smokescreen, is counter productive to valoredge's survival when using cannibal blade (lower acc means slower TP gain, meaning fewer cannibal blades to heal itself). Despite this, I pretty much constantly need a dark maneuver on my puppet if it's survivability is at all in question.

    I can understand using maneuvers to determine spellcasting, but when bst, smn, and now even drg have the ability to choose their pet's ws (or at least WHEN they ws, in the case of charmed pets), the fact that pup is still using this bass-ackwards method of WSing is really aggravating x.x

    I know it wouldn't be something quick to implement, but is giving us our own way to at least force a specific ws in the manner drg got with smiting breath, or ready (on a shorter recast, given how pup ws compare to jug pet ws) can't be so unreasonable/undoable that it won't ever happen.
    (2)
    Siren Server since 2004
    AKA Lady Jinte of Allakhazam
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Nutcracker had trained for years to crush the crotch and/or obliterate the ovaries of each and every monster in Vana'diel. Not even some weird thing that fish have called a "cloaca" could stem his robotic rage towards reproductive bits.

  7. #177
    Player Kysaiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    128
    Character
    Kysaiana
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    I almost never equip flame holder for all the reasons everyone else has stated. The miniscule gains you get from using it don't outweigh the pain in the butt it is to get it to actually work with the WS you want.
    If they aren't going to allow us to pick the auto's WS from a menu, I wish they'd at least change what maneuver prioritizes what WS. If you want say, Valoredge to get HP back you would want to use regen and Cannibal Blade. But since light maneuvers prioritize Bone Crusher, you have to use two dark maneuvers to get it to use Cannibal Blade, which as Theytak said, have zero use on Valoredge.

    I'm thankful for all the AI tweaks that are going to implemented soon, but it still feels like this job should be call "Puppet Suggester" rather than "Puppetmaster"
    (1)

  8. #178
    Player Theytak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    485
    Character
    Theytak
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I often find myself wondering who is the master, and who is the puppet
    (3)
    Siren Server since 2004
    AKA Lady Jinte of Allakhazam
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Nutcracker had trained for years to crush the crotch and/or obliterate the ovaries of each and every monster in Vana'diel. Not even some weird thing that fish have called a "cloaca" could stem his robotic rage towards reproductive bits.

  9. #179
    Player Treyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    13
    Character
    Treyd
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 95
    I may be alone on this, but to me flame holder seems like it would be one of the last attachments I'd worry about adjusting. I usually am able to slip it in on Valoredge and Sharpshot(due to only needing one fire slot) for a small WS boost and I like it that way. Auto WS are already decently strong and somehow I can't imagine them getting too much stronger without "adjusting" something to compensate. Not to mention the time that you are building triple fire you don't have as much haste, double attack, etc on the puppet.

    Just doesn't feel like most of the time it would be worth the 20 extra seconds to build fire. Now if maneuver recast was shorter that would be a different story. That's what I'd rather push for.

    Off topic slightly: I keep trying to get my puppet to cast buffs and have split timers on the non-test server and it is depressing me. This update needs to be implemented soon. Please?
    (0)

  10. #180
    Player Dfoley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    427
    Character
    Raijitsu
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Id be fine with an ability on a 10 minute timer that 'sets' your ws.

    Aka:
    Tactical Prowess
    10 minute duration 10 minute reuse
    Pick the ws from a menu and that is the only ws it will use for the next 10 minutes!

    Then you no longer have to worry about ANY maneuvers for ws and can do maneuvers based on the desired affect on the pet, and not what ws might accidently fire.

    Just a crackpot suggestion, I have 1000s more... but everyone is sick of it as is any ways.
    (0)

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