Automaton's sex?

[Annahya]

Heh. I was adding further clarification to my post when you responded - I didn't intend to edit "after" you responded. Though the edit didn't change my position retrospectively, it is rude to do that in a conversation, and I apologize for that.

Unfortunately there is not a PM feature on these forums; that I am aware of, anyway.

Here are some resources related to the discussion, though:
Some definitions of Sex and Gender
Sex, Gender and Sexual Orientation
Sex, Gender and Gender Role

I would be happy to move the discussion elsewhere if you are interested, and I can provide several quotes from reference texts as well; but you are correct that this is not really the forum to digress into this subject.

Here we should be discussing how our automatons frustrate us, not real life. /grin

[Theytak]

Which is why I didn't reference gender (outside of my comment) in my OP and thread name.^^

Sex does not equal gender, on that note. I know too many people who take them for the same thing, when this is incorrect on so many levels. If someone was physically a male, but identified as female, you would refer to them as a she. At least, I would. :/ There are too many gender norms attached to our sex, these days... Very frustrating, indeed.

Thank you for your responses, though! It doesn't really happen so much for me to care, but it's good to know Dora's not the only one who parries with "his" weapon.

Well actually for automatons it's pretty easy to determine their sex. Ask ghatsaad if he installed a vibrator or a fleshlight when he built it, or look for yourself!

Heh. I was adding further clarification to my post when you responded - I didn't intend to edit "after" you responded. Though the edit didn't change my position retrospectively, it is rude to do that in a conversation, and I apologize for that.

Unfortunately there is not a PM feature on these forums; that I am aware of, anyway.

Here are some resources related to the discussion, though:
Some definitions of Sex and Gender
Sex, Gender and Sexual Orientation
Sex, Gender and Gender Role

I would be happy to move the discussion elsewhere if you are interested, and I can provide several quotes from reference texts as well; but you are correct that this is not really the forum to digress into this subject.

Here we should be discussing how our automatons frustrate us, not real life. /grin

The problem is that people don't understand that "gender" is not one thing. Gender is a blanket term that covers several different aspects. "Gender Roles" are the social aspect you're identifying, and you are mostly correct in the statement that they are social constructs, however the brain is biologically hard-wired to pick up on, learn, and mimic these roles from an incredibly early age. However, "gender" as a form of self-identification, ie; as a man, a woman, or otherwise, is not, in anyway, a social construct, but is rather a biological part of the brain that is known as one's "Gender Identity". This Gender Identity is nigh absolute and is cemented into a person's brain, typically by the time they're three years old. If gender was not a solid part of the body, then the aggravating assertion that being transgender is just a life style choice would be correct.

I recommend you look into the book As Nature Made Him, the boy who was raised as a girl. It's about David Reimer, and will really throw a lot of what you understand about sex and gender out of the window.

[xbobx]

My automation is gender neutral. that is what attachments are for, to help with that issue.

[Theytak]

My automation is gender neutral. that is what attachments are for, to help with that issue.

This thread is now about turning various attachments into innuendos, double entendres, or straight up implications.

Before caroline, my automaton was Joe. Joe's tension springs were always tense, and never springy, but boy did they have some reach to them. Also the shock absorber is totally the automaton's butt.

[MakkotoParinne]

That's what I'm talking about, really, as such with my example above (a man who identifies as female). I know many transsexuals and transgender people, and they are who they are. It's what's in the brain that counts, the wiring of a person's personality and mind.

I believe there are many different ways this can come around, depending on the brain itself and the environment around it. My brothers were raised the exact same way as me, but why did I turn out differently? That was on me, not my environment. Whatever made my brain say "NO, you be like this!" is how it went, I guess. xD

[MakkotoParinne]

And.. lol, you guys are terrific!

[Annahya]

Okay, this is the last time I am going to post on this tangent - as we have completely hijacked this thread.

The problem is that people don't understand that "gender" is not one thing. Gender is a blanket term that covers several different aspects.

The people providing the resources I offered are a large number of liscenced and educated professionals. This generalization is not only unfair, it is also inaccurate. One could accurately state that gender relates to, or "covers" many different things, but in and of it self, like any concept, it is one thing; but that is a digression from the addressing of the implication that the resources I provided "don't understand."

"Gender Roles" are the social aspect you're identifying, and you are mostly correct in the statement that they are social constructs, however the brain is biologically hard-wired to pick up on, learn, and mimic these roles from an incredibly early age. However, "gender" as a form of self-identification, ie; as a man, a woman, or otherwise, is not, in anyway, a social construct, but is rather a biological part of the brain that is known as one's "Gender Identity".

Gender roles were only offered by the resources I posted. I was speaking of gender, and in this instance you are incorrect. Gender is not biologically determined; sex is. Gender, and gender identity are learned. Basically speaking: sex is a state of being, and gender is what that state of being means in society; this is supported by Monash University (2011), Brannon (2011), and Boyd and Bee (2009). Your assertion that gender exists as a biological imperative is inaccurate to the point of being incorrect; while it is influenced by biological sex, it is also influenced by temperament, training, society/culture, parenting, interactions with other children, toys, et al.

Gender identity is built by an individual, during development, from a combination of genetic programing and interpretation of the environment. Nature and nurture, so to speak.

This Gender Identity is nigh absolute and is cemented into a person's brain, typically by the time they're three years old. If gender was not a solid part of the body, then the aggravating assertion that being transgender is just a life style choice would be correct.

The fixedness of gender-identity by a given age is not relevant to the discussion of where it came from; nor did I ever assert it was a choice made by the individual.

I recommend you look into the book As Nature Made Him, the boy who was raised as a girl. It's about David Reimer, and will really throw a lot of what you understand about sex and gender out of the window.

I will look into this book, and it may offer interesting insights - but its information is only part of a body of information on the subject, and it must be considered accordingly.

Anyway, I apologize to everyone for our tangent - I will try harder not to do this again.

---Edit: Forgot to add my references...---

References
Boyd, D. and Bee, H. (2009). Lifespan Development [Fifth Edition]. Boston: Pearson Education, Inc.

Brannon, L. (2011). Gender: Psychological Perspectives. (6th ed.). Boston: Pearson Education, Inc.

Monash University. (2011). What is the difference between sex and gender?. Retrieved from the Monash University Web site: http://www.med.monash.edu.au/genderm...andgender.html

[Theytak]

I'm going to give you an example. Someone who isn't transgender saying that gender is a purely learned thing is like a person who was born deaf trying to tell a musician what music sounds like.

I seriously want to tear apart everything you just said, but because this is a great day for pup, I'm going to let it slide, and remind you that no matter how much you study, I've been living the hell of my biological gender identity and my physiological sex being different since my earliest memories, when I was three and a half. I think I know a good bit about what I'm talking about. ><

[Mirage]

Should just be changed to "it", i guess. Dora parries the attack with its weapon.

[Theytak]

Should just be changed to "it", i guess. Dora parries the attack with Boots.

I can't help but picture this every time I read "Dora". If you get the joke, you know it'd be funny to see.