2 Hour....Part Deux?

[xbobx]

Please, dear God, let this 2 hour summon a second automaton pet... With increased merits it could lower the time it takes to use the Job ability again. You could technically make your own party with your pets: Valor Edge (Tank), Master (DD), and soulsouther (Healing)... The combinations would be endless... Creating controls for two pets at a time might be hard, but you could target a pet specifically when using manuevers, or the manuevers you use could apply to both pets which might be a good consequence for having two pets out.

Please god let it not be two automations, a second automation is a stupid idea.

[Kristal]

Please god let it not be two automatons, a second automaton is a stupid idea.

Not to mention difficult to control. I could imagine some kind of tag team, when you only directly control one maton at a time, but then you still need to manage two kinds of automaton equipments somehow.

I wouldn't mind some kind of arcana fellow though.. perhaps summon a spheroid, pot, doll, ghrah or acrolith (depending on ammo item). Not so much as a new 2hr, but a PUP-only gear enchantment. (Obviously most of the same rules as fellows apply, so only one fellow, doll or magian trial book at a time. But not the party size limit.)

Hmmm.. as a real 2hr, perhaps one of the caturae as an automaton (Void Activate).. depending on the frame in your maton equipment window, you'd get a different one.

[Annahya]

Not to mention difficult to control. I could imagine some kind of tag team, when you only directly control one maton at a time, but then you still need to manage two kinds of automaton equipments somehow.

I wouldn't mind some kind of arcana fellow though.. perhaps summon a spheroid, pot, doll, ghrah or acrolith (depending on ammo item). Not so much as a new 2hr, but a PUP-only gear enchantment. (Obviously most of the same rules as fellows apply, so only one fellow, doll or magian trial book at a time. But not the party size limit.)

Hmmm.. as a real 2hr, perhaps one of the caturae as an automaton (Void Activate).. depending on the frame in your maton equipment window, you'd get a different one.

I've got it! A new frame!

The "Ethertreader Frame" which is a summoner. That way, you could activate the automaton, and depending on what Maneuvers you put up, he could possibly listen to you and maybe summon a corrosponding critter (Caturae, elemental, avatar, whatever). Then the corrosponding critter could maybe listen to your Automaton's commands, or possibly ignore them and blindna the automaton, or silence some crabs.

We would be totally combat ineffective, but we would have two pets, and we could point and laugh at our automaton...
"NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE YOU STUPID GIT! BWAHAHAHAHA..."

In all seriousness though, people mentioning Ob's ability to hotswap frames is interesting. Because of managing attachments, perhaps changing traditional frames in mid fight would be rough - but maybe a new "super frame" could be switched to during a new two-hour?

I hate to compare our pets to many children's cartoons about furry-gladiator-slaves, but many of the iterations of that genre have temporary "crazy battle modes" that their critter changes into for several seconds of intense action. So, maybe soemthing like that, where we two-hour and the Automaton does the spin-dance and blinks out, returning as "Crazy-vampire-tank-dramatically-named-transformer-deathstar-frame MCXLV-4000?"

[xbobx]

Why not just have our two hour call forth the Blue Fairy and turn our puppet into a real boy.

[Annahya]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume what SE might or might not do. They've obviously showed us that they can go any way they want to with Puppetmaster after seperating spell timers and adding enhancing magic which is a totally new and job changing concept from how Puppetmaster has previously worked. Asking for 2 two pets isn't that much; afterall, we're supposed to be puppetmasters. Having two pets would first continue the whole concept with Ovjang/Mnejing (If I spelled that right) from the ToAU storyline, and it would estrapolate on the concept of puppetmasters being one of the better solo jobs because we'll be able to create our own parties with 2 automatons.

I do want to point out that I stressed that everything is pure speculation - and my assertion that I find it unlikely, to the point of dismissive, that we will recieve a second automaton is not "quick" or uninformed.

Primarily, the story about the bond between an Automaton and its master would be a bit thrown to the curb by allowing a second puppet. Yes, there is the sticking point of the Aht Urhgan Mission NPC (I will not go into detail for spoiler-sake), but I feel that this is adequately separated from players as a special case scenario. To give us two puppets would, in spirit, belittle the relationship we are supposed to share with our little, disobedient, razza-fraggin... /trails off

Secondly, I find it highly unlikely that we will be given a second puppet because of the coded command structure. I do not think SE will add /pet2 or the like, just so that our two-hour can give us a second pet, and I do not see them hammering some other way to make it happen. Why do I feel this way? SMN/PUP cannot have two pets out. DRG/PUP cannot have two pets out. PUP/SMN cannot have two pets out. BST/PUP cannot have two pets out. (Continue ad nauseum) Yes, you can have a pet and an NPC, but these are two different concepts. NPCs do not use the /pet command at all. One could argue that you don't use the /pet command for Wyverns, but those are in the pet "slot" as they use the <pet> tag.

Thirdly, in response to the concept of building our own mini-parties for solo purposes, SE has already established that they agree that a pet job relying on its two-hour to summon one of its basic functions was a bad idea for DRG - as they moved the pet summoning to a non-two-hour and replaced it. If they wanted to move PUP into a mini-party capacity, I doubt it would be done in the form of a two-hour. If they wanted a limited window of power afforded by a two-hour, and were going to use an additional automaton to provide it, perhaps we would get something akin to Odin, where an uber-auto shows up and explodes or something. If we were supposed to manage two puppets and form mini-parties, which I also think is incredibly unlikely based on the above, it would be done in the form of the elimination of Deus Ex Automata (which would no longer be needed and, frankly, overpowering) and the addition of Activate II (and all other derivative /jas).

Two-hours aside, the coding necessary to provide a duplicate set of /jas, or even changing the existing /jas to target <pet1> and <pet2>, makes me think that there is little chance of this happening.

Besides, there is much more precedent in the game for SMNs being able to have an elemental, and an avatar, in play. PUPs have one NPC with two automatons. Random SMN mobs (in content like Limbus) will have an elemental out while idling, and then summon an avatar during the fight without having to give up their elemental. I don't see SE doing this without also giving SMNs, a second pet - especially since SE knows that SMNs already feel ignored. And for that matter, why not give BSTs the ability to Call Beast and still use charm?

All in all, I just think there are way too many concerns for it to be considered an educated guess that we will recieve a second automaton.

Yes, SE can do whatever they want. They could add flying chocobos. They could give every job dual wield as a native trait. They could add five more jobs to the game. They certainly could allow us two have two automatons if they wanted to.

I just don't see any of those things as likely, and I don't think I am "quick to assume" anything by saying such.

But, again, all that said, I opened with the concession that it is all speculation until the rubber hits the road.

[Annahya]

Why not just have our two hour call forth the Blue Fairy and turn our puppet into a real boy.

/em imagines having to do a questline, with lengthy CS farming, where our Automaton runs off with a shady con-man, we are eaten by a whale, and...

/em shudders and walks away without responding.

[Wolfandre]

I do admit, the in-game reason for having the second automaton would be funky. Automatons are expensive. There's a naked Hume in Aht-Urghan somewhere to prove it. We salvaged ours from Lamia infested stinkholes. It was probably one of the ones the Lamia stole, and is likely a murderer. (Wouldn't it be some amazing irony if it was the original Valkeng?)

Anyway, we would need a reason for having the second automaton.

But, now that I'm thinking of it, the current Dev. Teams cares nothing for story, as seen via Abyssea (seriously, how many times do I need to travel ALL THE WAY to Hall of the Gods just to have my ass kissed?), so the opposite it just as likely.

In all honesty, I don't see the second automaton being difficult to code at all. Make it so that, like what was said, maneuvers are shared. Limit it even further by not being able to equip the same attachments on both autos. Sound fair now? The object of the in-game puppetmaster was so that the master and automaton work in tandem, but the master controls the puppet, thus splitting his attention between himself and it. Being a true puppetmaster, one at the top of his prime (lvl 99...), you might think he could control multiple puppets.

Sorry for not using quotes. Have to get this response in fast. In regards to mob SMNs and BSTS: mobs and players have always been different. Mob, as well as auto, ranged attacks are seens as abilities. Mob pets are seen as 'assisting' the mob, not actually under their control. Mob BSTs don't use Sic or Heel or Stay. They are two seperate entities that share hate (in most cases). When monsters use Astral Flow, they are actually calling their avatar to deal some damage, not just being assisted by that avatar.

A good example is Dynamis. Beastmen summoners have Avatars out fulltime. The monster doesn't use Astral Flow: the avatar uses it's Astral Flow ability (Diamond Dust, etc.) at a specified %, much like the primes. NPC Fellows act the same way. Following this rule, having a second pet, no matter what job, is doable. PUP seems like a good choice for that job, in my opinion.

I personally hope we don't get another 'super-awesome-happy-fun-time automaton of death' move. Overdrive II is not the solution to our problem. And you all know what happens with big, one hit moves: need I remind you how really awesome EES and Odin are nowadays?

We need something different. BLUs are gunning for full spell list usage, or at least from what I've seen. What can we come up with that is akin to that in power, but not overly silly?

Sorry for not contributing anything definitive. I'm just offering counterpoints where necessary, and I wanted to know what everyone felt. Keep it going, guys!

[Shotaro1]

2 Automatons, no thanks. Silly idea.

Change Harlequin to a more mnk type job, so we can cover a variety of jobs. Mnk, rdm, blm, whm, rng, pld(war-ish).

Then, as someone mentioned, change Overdrive, to give the respective 2hr to the Auto.

Hundred Fist, Chainspell, Eagle Eye Shot, Invincible (or Might Strikes), Mana Font, Benediction.

Me likey this idea.

[Wolfandre]

Feel like arguing the point of wanting/not wanting a certain 2hr proposed? You know, instead of just saying 'nothxkbai,' and actually contributing to the conversation.

Also...

Ignoring the fact that Overdrive is awful and SE shouldn't even start a sentence pertaining to new 2hrs without considering changing it....

...this isn't an Overdrive thread. There's millions of those elsewhere. I wanna know what the PUP community wants for their SECOND 2hr.

[brayen]

2 Automatons, no thanks. Silly idea.

Change Harlequin to a more mnk type job, so we can cover a variety of jobs. Mnk, rdm, blm, whm, rng, pld(war-ish).

Then, as someone mentioned, change Overdrive, to give the respective 2hr to the Auto.

Hundred Fist, Chainspell, Eagle Eye Shot, Invincible (or Might Strikes), Mana Font, Benediction.

Me likey this idea.

Sorry but mnk would be a horrible idea, it is meant as a beginners pet, it has all 3 skills and is poor at all 3. If anything you would need to entirely rework the frame to make it viable. I am fine for letting it collect dust to be honest unless they have the time to rework the frame entirely on its skill and such.

While the idea of a respective 2hr based on frame it seems a bit pointless, as spells are on a timer and eagle eye shot sucks.

I would like to see something of the likes of boosting all parameters, resetting activate timer, 0 overheating, enhanced attachment effects to a level of a "4th" maneuver when one maneuver is used and making all attachments active at a 3 maneuver static by just having overdrive active. additionally longer duration<this is a must>. basically what overdrive is doing now but to a degree where it will actually be noticeable.