Where's our Relic...?

[Atomic_Skull]

If they give DNC any more of THF's stuff I'll be climbing a clock tower with a rifle.

[Phafi]

If they give DNC any more of THF's stuff I'll be climbing a clock tower with a rifle.

Last time I checked, RDM and BRD can use Mandau, so not THF onry!

[Atomic_Skull]

Last time I checked, RDM and BRD can use Mandau, so not THF onry!

SE hasn't been giving BRD and RDM all of THF's stuff either.

[saevel]

Honestly, if I knew a rdm or pld that had all 3 weapons at the 95 version I would love to parse each so that the only variable difference would be the swords and stats the swords gave. Granted WS gear would be different due to different mods, but otherwise the DoT would be near static aside from the obvious rank difference between WOE compared to relic or emp. Other than number crunches I can't get proof beyond all doubt to show why I rank WoE at 3rd compared to relic, even in a number crunch the difference shifted from 2% in favor of WOE to 4% in favor of relic in a Lower/Upper scaling. This however did not account for chance to double attack during WS which I would rather leave to a parse than pen and paper to weed out the possibility of error.

PS: I have a mandau, not an excal. I was simply running calulations and looking at parse data I had from my Almace blu compared to a Relic pld, but even that is askewed since I was dual weilding and he wasn't. Maybe I can get him on his rdm and compare it to my rdm.....I'll have to see if he even has equal gear for that.

An easier way to put it in perspective, my RDM frequently does 1.5~2K CDC's on VWNM's, and I'm talking Jeuno / Outlands VWNM's here. Now these aren't "epeen" shots, their actual averages (2.6K highest on Jeuno VWNM so far). It's also how I know VWNM's don't have crazy stats, there is no way in hell a "RDM" will be putting up those numbers if the VWNM had 130/140 VIT, 130/140 AGI or crazy defense. This WS is that awesome, I can't state that enough. If there was a way to use CDC with Excal that I'm positive the Excal would win out as the best sword, but you can't. Also the aftermath's on both Excal and Tizona are activated only when you do their respective WS, meaning KoTR spam for Excal or Expacion spam for Tizona, while the ODD aftermath effect on Almace is activated using the best sword WS in the game. Effectively it can be kept up 90~100% of the time, depending on how good you are at timing WS's. We have an Excal / Aegis PLD and he doesn't touch either of the Almace PLD's (one Almace/Aegis other Almace/OChain), and they all have really good gear.

Ontopic, SE should give BLU Excal period. They should also remove all the EX and SP WS's restrictions, meaning Swift blade for BLU and "all the above" for RDM. Lastly there should be a question you can perform after completely a weapon that allows you to permanently access that WS. Meaning a PLD that had an 85 Almace could permanently learn CDC, or if they had a 75 Excal they could permanently learn KoTR. For those about to scream blood over this, they ~ALREADY~ have the weapon, they've already meet the accomplishment and earned the right to use it. This would just let them use it which whatever weapon they wanted.

[Prothscar]

An easier way to put it in perspective, my RDM frequently does 1.5~2K CDC's on VWNM's, and I'm talking Jeuno / Outlands VWNM's here.

No it doesn't.

Now these aren't "epeen" shots, their actual averages (2.6K highest on Jeuno VWNM so far).

No they aren't.

It's also how I know VWNM's don't have crazy stats, there is no way in hell a "RDM" will be putting up those numbers if the VWNM had 130/140 VIT, 130/140 AGI or crazy defense.

No it's not. Basically what you're saying is going against what everyone who has ever played this content is saying. Your gimp melee RDM is not outdamaging actual DDs. These monsters have high stats of some description, DEF and EVA undoubtedly, and this is well documented by people far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more credible than you.

This WS is that awesome, I can't state that enough. If there was a way to use CDC with Excal that I'm positive the Excal would win out as the best sword, but you can't.

Yes the weaponskill is awesome. Yes Excal would be the best sword in next to any situation if it could use CDC, it already is situationally superior to Almace.

Also the aftermath's on both Excal and Tizona are activated only when you do their respective WS, meaning KoTR spam for Excal or Expacion spam for Tizona, while the ODD aftermath effect on Almace is activated using the best sword WS in the game.

Excalibur's aftermath is trash, you don't need to use Knights of the Round for the 10~20% chance (don't remember exactly what it is for the sword) to deal 2.5x damage. You also don't need to use Knights of the Round to gain access to the hidden effect that deals 25% of your HP in damage. Tizona is difficult to argue for and is easily the worst of the three due to Expiacion being trash and being required for the main melee attraction of the weapon to be available, however with a Tizona you'd likely be more focused on damage from spells rather than weaponskills which opens up an entirely new reason for the weapon being worse off.

Effectively it can be kept up 90~100% of the time, depending on how good you are at timing WS's. We have an Excal / Aegis PLD and he doesn't touch either of the Almace PLD's (one Almace/Aegis other Almace/OChain), and they all have really good gear.

You aren't keeping Aftermath up 90~100% of the time on a VWNM, timing your weaponskills has nothing to do with it, in fact what does timing your weaponskills have to do with it even if you are allowed to be meleeing the mob 24/7? Your Excalibur PLD clearly sucks.

Ontopic, SE should give BLU Excal period.

Yes they should.

They should also remove all the EX and SP WS's restrictions, meaning Swift blade for BLU and "all the above" for RDM.

No they shouldn't.

Lastly there should be a question you can perform after completely a weapon that allows you to permanently access that WS. Meaning a PLD that had an 85 Almace could permanently learn CDC, or if they had a 75 Excal they could permanently learn KoTR. For those about to scream blood over this, they ~ALREADY~ have the weapon, they've already meet the accomplishment and earned the right to use it. This would just let them use it which whatever weapon they wanted.

Interesting idea but a ridiculous one. Will never happen and should never happen.

[Kitkat]

An easier way to put it in perspective, my RDM frequently does 1.5~2K CDC's on VWNM's, and I'm talking Jeuno / Outlands VWNM's here. Now these aren't "epeen" shots, their actual averages (2.6K highest on Jeuno VWNM so far). It's also how I know VWNM's don't have crazy stats, there is no way in hell a "RDM" will be putting up those numbers if the VWNM had 130/140 VIT, 130/140 AGI or crazy defense. This WS is that awesome, I can't state that enough. If there was a way to use CDC with Excal that I'm positive the Excal would win out as the best sword, but you can't. Also the aftermath's on both Excal and Tizona are activated only when you do their respective WS, meaning KoTR spam for Excal or Expacion spam for Tizona, while the ODD aftermath effect on Almace is activated using the best sword WS in the game. Effectively it can be kept up 90~100% of the time, depending on how good you are at timing WS's. We have an Excal / Aegis PLD and he doesn't touch either of the Almace PLD's (one Almace/Aegis other Almace/OChain), and they all have really good gear.

Ontopic, SE should give BLU Excal period. They should also remove all the EX and SP WS's restrictions, meaning Swift blade for BLU and "all the above" for RDM. Lastly there should be a question you can perform after completely a weapon that allows you to permanently access that WS. Meaning a PLD that had an 85 Almace could permanently learn CDC, or if they had a 75 Excal they could permanently learn KoTR. For those about to scream blood over this, they ~ALREADY~ have the weapon, they've already meet the accomplishment and earned the right to use it. This would just let them use it which whatever weapon they wanted.

As much as I hate this card I'm playing it: Parse data and Screen shot proof cause you are clearly lying. Seriously, bring some data to back up all the steam you're blowing into this topic.

[saevel]

As much as I hate this card I'm playing it: Parse data and Screen shot proof cause you are clearly lying. Seriously, bring some data to back up all the steam you're blowing into this topic.

SS's of 1.5 ~ 2K CDC's ? Next time I'm doing VWNM's I'll do that then. Their common enough, but even I post those people here will just say I'm cherry picking / only doing it with buffs / ect.

Parse is gonna be 50/50, what exactly are you looking for? Melee average damage / accuracy / WS average is easy to get, but you need context. Temp item usage / and whether the VWNM has any special defense's and so forth.

Or are you talking Excal vs Almace? Our Excal PLD is currently on hiatus, the other two PLDs are on when we do VWNMs, so can post that info.

Is there a particular VWNM you want this from, or just whatever ones we end up doing that evening? Remember from one to another stats / special properties can vary dramatically.

[Neisan_Quetz]

ITT: Common enough = average damage

[Kitkat]

Parse is gonna be 50/50, what exactly are you looking for? Melee average damage / accuracy / WS average is easy to get, but you need context. Temp item usage / and whether the VWNM has any special defense's and so forth.

Good for you, you picked up on the very reason for this. Temp items can come in droves, but there will be times when it won't thus making your statements false since they too are subject to situational exceptions. Temp items are not all encompassing thus become an inconstant variable on damage that places biase on otherwise standard data.

All data and calculations I performed were base statistical data with no other outside variables that couldn't be considered "constants." You based all of your argument on highly situational and biased empirical data to argue against data that can apply to any situation since it is virtually devoid of inconsistencies.

Plainly put: CdC is powerful, but alone it is not "that powerful" within constant data calculations to make a WoE weapon push a relic out of 2nd place primarily due to your biased data. It would be like a doctor performing a drug test on 8 individuals and giving 2 out of 4 of the actual test subjects something more to enhance the base drug in testing for favorable outcomes. Obviously the 2 getting the supplements will do better than the 2 without. Better context would be a war saying they can put out insane damage all the time based off sample data taken during 2hour and full buffs. Since all the statistics are not constant it is inaccurate data.

From temp items you are getting increases to your base (constant) pdif, acc, fstr, and dDex values which are not constants. Applying constant data to constant data it has been proven that VWNM do have inflated values on top of other additional constant values such as -mdt/pdt, evasion boost, accuracy boost, and other passive traits that are always active.

[saevel]

Complete nonsense

It's a freaking VWNM fight, you will have temps and you will use them. Every HV proc refils all your temps, every NQ proc gives you one random temp. With the duration of Bravers / Stalwarts being what it is, I've had fights where I had full time Bravers / Stalwarts / Ascetics. PLD's and BLU's get the exact same temps, it's a static increase for everyone thus they would see the same benefit.

And what event outside of VWNM would you possible be doing that you weren't capping many of your stats on? You do realize we're lv 95 now, Tiamat is now a EM and Kirin is a DC. There is nothing else in the game that we wouldn't be above a T unless your inside Abyssea, which happens to bring up Atma's / Crour buffs.

Trying to count VWNM without Temps / Atmacite is the same as counting Abyssea without the crour / atma buffs. Nothing but a paper exercise.

And now I see that I was correct that you were just laying a trap, you had no intention of looking at anything I posted and was already planning on springing the "you used temps!!!!" counter-argument. Of course that fact that I get 2K+ CDC's on everything else in the game just kindly slips your mind.

So tell me, what is this theoretical rock wall with infinite HP your doing your "calculations" against? Because so far, a Badelair +3 beats out a Excal / Tizona and an Almace just destroys it. Sorry that you feel all butt hurt that an easy to obtain weapon beats our a relic, take it up with SE.