[dev1029] SCH Feedback

[Fredjan]

Here's my feedback concerning Scholar additions:

Light Arts / Regen
This is a very welcomed change. I have always valued the Regen line of spells even before this time because I always saw them as a way of MP conservation instead of providing "immediate" HP recovery when it wasn't as necessary.

Having them not only become more efficient but last longer can be SCH's fix to their lack of healing magic. Even with Rapture as well as obis/Twilight Cape/Aurorastorm making SCHs better healers than RDMs, they still needed some improvement (For example, if SCH got Cure V, if it was used with Rapture it'd exceed a WHM's Cure VI in raw healing strength, not factoring cureskin). The more potent these Regen spells are, the more we don't really need a higher tier Cure spell.

Suggestions to further improve this trend:
- Add Regen V later on once we get the final level cap increase, perhaps through the 99 merit system, or via a scroll - usable at level 99 (Considering the changed levels - 59 for Regen III, and 79 for Regen IV). Since SCH is obviously wanted to be viewed as "best at using Regen spells" they should get a Regen spell no other job has, not even WHM.

Overall:
The additions to Light Arts are very much welcomed and can't wait to make use of them.

Dark Arts / Helix
Like many other Scholars, I do not understand the Helix level adjustment. Instead of them being learned from 61 to 75, they are learned from 18 to 32...!

That is a VERY huge decrease. Not only does this make us less desirable for Voidwatch, it takes away one of our "niches" and gives it to other jobs, even though they will be less potent on using them compared to us. Most of them would just use it to see if it staggers anything anyway, but still, having one of our main things given to other jobs feels like a "slap to the face," for lack of better wording. This change will make people want SCH in Voidwatch for only job ability procs (Libra and Modus Veritas). The Embrava spell will make us wanted in a zerg situation, but that is universal anyway, not limited to Voidwatch.

Suggestions:
If we're going to lose exclusive rights to tier I helix spells, we'd want tier II helix, and the ability to make them stagger mobs later on. Since staggering things is the trend in the remainder of FFXI's time from what we've seen, we want to be desired for things that aren't limited to our two-hour. If we got tier II helix spells, I'd be fine with this change.

The only thing I liked from this "side" of adjustments was this:
- Modus Veritas's recast reduced to three minutes, since it involves the helix spells. 10 minutes was way too unreasonable for a job ability that misses well over half the time.

Klimaform
It's about time we got this duration extended. 1 minute to 3 minutes is very welcome, considering we can't use it with Perpetuance. I still don't understand why something that enhances our magic accuracy is not only black magic, but dark-magic based, but I digress.



Overall, very content with the SCH changes - look forward to seeing them implemented in the next version update. I'm just not happy about the helix levels being adjusted.

[Kaisha]

I'd still prefer them to just make Modus 10min like it's always been, and be 100% land.

The nerf for it was due to SCH being able to stack the ability for huge damage if you somehow had 6+ SCH who knew how to time it with utmost precision. Why can't they just............you know, prevent it from stacking?



Regen changes were much appreciated though. You're looking at 50hp/tic with Light Arts up and using +2 bonnet, which is better than what WHM can achieve with all their Regen merits/gear. Great for extended battles, although still isn't really enough to warrant coming as a SCH healer over WHM unless it's lower-lvl content where you can nuke to your hearts' content also.

I also would like to hear more about the Helix adjustments since it's hard to test these proper, even on the test server. Only main bonus I've come to expect was the drastically reduced MP cost, which actually makes me want to bother using them now since the dmg-to-cost ratio is huge compared to the old amount. Would enjoy them even more if they hardly generated any emnity. Make it similar to other DoT spells you know? The job needs a couple niches that it excels in, and so far everything it has doesn't warrant that much attention, aside from perhaps Embrava abuse for zerg cases, but those are rare.



For me though, what I'd really like adjusted for SCH is their category 2 merits. Majority of them are useless (why waste 2 stratagem charges for +25 m.acc or -50 emnity when I can just do two nukes w/ Ebuillence instead?) unless max'd out, and don't offer much compared to maxing Enlightenment/Stormsurge instead.

Granted the community reps have teased an overhaul/adjustment to those have been in the works for some time, so perhaps we'll hear something soon enough.

[Foldypaws]

I also would like to hear more about the Helix adjustments since it's hard to test these proper, even on the test server.

Dark Arts gives helixes a (level/5)-3 bonus to base damage, 150% of that under TR. Duration is roughly doubled at level 95, haven't checked the duration modification at lower levels.

Might mirror the Regen duration progression, whatever that is, given as how the effect bonus is the same.

[brayen]

while these changes are welcome i feel the following:

Light arts:
Regen is a good step in the right direction but it feels a bit low for what the game requires in most battles, i would like at least another look over on the increased potency if at all possible, the duration on the other hand is very nice

Dark arts:
Changes to helix is a very mixed feeling, while the reduction in mp is a nice change the spell themselves are still rather underwhelming, and the fact that we are losing them as a unique spell it is hard to grasp what the future is holding(helix 2?) if there is no new helix to come then i will say the potency of these spells is still very weak and the damage over time it creates is very slow so it is a hard to determine at this time.

tabula Rasa(2hr)
the changes for tabula rasa are nice, after the last update i am still very pleased and these fixes are a smooth addition for the use of this powerful sch abuility

Modus verita:
Very nice on the reduced recast, however the issue where it hardly EVER lands on any NM still renderes this ability useless more times then not, while i wish i can say i will now be using this every 3min after this update it is not worth the time just to get a "miss"

Klimaform:
this is the best of the changes in my opinion, while we have given the spell to all jobs, this can only benefit everyone. Being able to increase magic acc full time from the use of a spell is right along the lines of a strategist.

conclusion:
*The regen from sch looks like they will be nice, however the rate of recovery is still a bit low for current content i hope this can be looked over
*The Changes to the helix line of spell are at a bit of a mixed feeling, on one hand it was a unique spell to sch, on the other the spells were very poor, the general rumor going around is that they are planning a new tier of helix so at the moment these changes are hard to comment at current
*Modus Verita STILL does not land

[Tazz]

yes changes are good but people still wont want me SCH for events if I have whm leveled or if they need procs >.<

[Kaisha]

yes changes are good but people still wont want me SCH for events if I have whm leveled or if they need procs >.<

Welcome to the days of old FFXI where if you had the highest-dmg DD or BLM lvl'd, you were stuck as it for every LS event ever.

SCH is a waste of space in VW just due to its playstyle. You can't bounce between Light & Dark Arts fast enough to be able to play a proper hybrid role like RDM could in the same situation, and you're consistantly out damaged by BLMs. Your MP efficient doesn't matter with the 20 temp items available to make use of, and the Regen boost doesn't matter since 50hp/tic isn't going to save someone getting hit for 300dmg+, or getting one-shotted by a TP move.

Even if I could actually land helix for more than 100dmg on VW NMs even with Weather/Storm/Klimaform/Obi/TwilightCape/Ebullience consistently, it's still not enough to warrant SCH due to the monsters having well over 100k HP in the later tiers given how long helix take to even deal its DoT.

[Smokenttp]

while these changes are welcome i feel the following:

Light arts:
Regen is a good step in the right direction but it feels a bit low for what the game requires in most battles, i would like at least another look over on the increased potency if at all possible, the duration on the other hand is very nice

Dark arts:
Changes to helix is a very mixed feeling, while the reduction in mp is a nice change the spell themselves are still rather underwhelming, and the fact that we are losing them as a unique spell it is hard to grasp what the future is holding(helix 2?) if there is no new helix to come then i will say the potency of these spells is still very weak and the damage over time it creates is very slow so it is a hard to determine at this time.

tabula Rasa(2hr)
the changes for tabula rasa are nice, after the last update i am still very pleased and these fixes are a smooth addition for the use of this powerful sch abuility

Modus verita:
Very nice on the reduced recast, however the issue where it hardly EVER lands on any NM still renderes this ability useless more times then not, while i wish i can say i will now be using this every 3min after this update it is not worth the time just to get a "miss"

Klimaform:
this is the best of the changes in my opinion, while we have given the spell to all jobs, this can only benefit everyone. Being able to increase magic acc full time from the use of a spell is right along the lines of a strategist.

conclusion:
*The regen from sch looks like they will be nice, however the rate of recovery is still a bit low for current content i hope this can be looked over
*The Changes to the helix line of spell are at a bit of a mixed feeling, on one hand it was a unique spell to sch, on the other the spells were very poor, the general rumor going around is that they are planning a new tier of helix so at the moment these changes are hard to comment at current
*Modus Verita STILL does not land

pretty much agreed with this, wouldnt hurt to bring regen potency up more, why not just just put a x3 while under light arts? would vastly improve the regen potency overall and would not outshine the powerfull 2hrs regen (i downgraded my sch to lvl 20 to test helixes and regen on lower levels and inside 2 hours i got a 42hp/tick regen 1 wich made my jaw drop and with adition to embrava made me solo an IT worm entirely on melee and helixes (58 dmg helixes while under 2hrs effect) PLEASE also consider that since a player need to WAIT 2hrs to do that AGAIN it is NOT overpowered), i think helixes should do more damage or have their acc adjusted since mostly i was hitting a 14 helix (altough it was thunder weather and i was using hydro helix but my max was a 32 helix wich would make it at around a thunder in damage but for 24 mp), but what disapointed me most is that the damage of a high level sch hardly will go past 100 now making then pretty much worse then an blm ancient magic (altough mp is alot lower) it wont help on high HP bosses at all,i would consider an potency boost on helixes AND adding tier II helixes more powerfull but more mp costly (lets see what about around 600+ base damage @ 90 duration and around 300 mp outside 2hrs) would actually help more on high level bosses. also learning those at around 75+(at 3 levels interval (geohelix II 75 , hydrohelix II 78, 81 anemohelix II, 84 pyrohelixII, 87 cryohelixII,90 ionohelix II, 93 NoctohelixII, 96 Luminohelix II)

[zell_]

my testing on regen 4 shows that its potency is doubled.

regen 4(no light arts) healed for 34 hp/tic

regen 4(with light arts) healed for 68 hp/tic


now onto durations:

regen 4(no arts) lasts 60 seconds(1 min)

regen 4(with light arts) lasts for 110 seconds(1 min and 50 seconds)

regen 4(with light arts, perpetuance and af3+2 hands) lasts for 270 seconds(4min and 30 seconds)


lets look at practical uses:

you cant accession it while you are not under light arts. so i guess u can use that to counteract sublimation charge whilst running to an event or something.

so mainly what we are dealing with is a 68 hp/tic situation(if you are in a support healer situation). there are twenty tics in one minute(60/3=20). lets say you use accession. the duration of regen 4 is 110 seconds. so 110/3=36.666666. multiply the 36.66666 by 68hp (36.66666*68=2,493).

2k+ hp is a lot to recover over almost two min. its quite respectable imo.

now lets do the math on regen 4 with perpetuance while wearing af3+2 hands that enhance perpetuance.
the duration is 270 seconds. 270/3=90. so 90 tics in 270 seconds. now multiply that by 68 hp. 90*68= 6,120.

6,120 hp recovered in 4 minutes and thirty seconds. i dont know about you all, but i think that is wonderful.

of course there are tp moves and spells that can one shot a dd or a tank. but you cannot ignore the amount of flexibility this adds to the alliance as a whole. it allows healers to focus on tank('s), and in the down time of a cure it allows the whm to try to proc nms in voidwatch. you could even use this for a main source of healing in an exp pt. or even a dd pt in voidwatch. the scholar itself can then change arts and continue to dmg or proc the nm. overall its a welcomed adjustment that i enjoy. the possibilities are great.

sorry for the wall of text, but i hoped to shed some light on the awesomeness of this spell in conjunction with scholars job abilities.

[zell_]

oh yes, and i meant to mention that i did all of those tests while wearing savant's bonnet +2.

[Camate]

I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding Regen and Cure V around the forums, so I wanted to pass along feedback that we received from the dev. team that Mocchi posted up earlier today.

1. Make it possible to cast Regen on alliance members
2. Make a scholar only high level Regen
3. Make abilities or traits which make it possible to use Regen strategically

I’d really like the above three things if you are going to work on scholar’s regen. Since they can use weather magic, it would be cool to change the effects of Regen based on the type of weather casted.

Aurorastorm + Regen: Enhances effect of Regen
Voidstorm + Regen: Increases effect duration of Regen
Firestorm + Regen: Regen + minor Regain
Rainstorm + Regen: Regen + minor Refresh
Sandstorm + Regen: Add half of the effect amount to your max HP
Windstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual reduction in attack delay
Hailstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual increase in magic critical hit rate
Thunderstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual increase in critical hit rate

I still feel like Cure V should be added too…
Is that reason that Cure V has not yet been added to scholar’s spell repertoire due to the fact that it making it an AoE would be too efficient?

In regards to wanting to the ability to cast Regen on alliance members, there have been a lot of people commenting on this, so we will be looking into making this an effect limited to scholar. We are going to need some time to develop and test this out so please give us a bit of time.

Also, thanks a lot for your Regen effect suggestions. We will take them into consideration.

In regards to the topic on Cure V which has cropped up in various other threads, I would like to inform you of our current direction.

We are looking at two main points:

1. The HP recovery amount of Cure III and IV are too low, and it’s hard to keep up with healing
2. Making each job’s specialty stand out more

With the level cap being increased and HP/damage taken amounts increasing, we understand that HP recovery amounts are low; however, we feel that making it possible to have every job that can use cure able to handle things all on their own is a completely different story.

While it’s possible for other jobs to help out with curing and cast support magic, which in turn create conditions making it easier to cure and also reduce the amount of cure-related stress, the job we have designated to be the main healer is white mage. Due to this, we do not currently have any plans of allowing jobs other than white mage to use Cure V.

However, the solution isn’t to limit the functionality of those jobs that assist with curing. So one possibility we’re considering is increasing the influence of the healing skill and MND, as well as increasing the HP recovery amount more than it is currently.

We believe this would involve making adjustments to jobs that have healing skill to improve the amount of HP recovered, but due to the fact that we will also be implementing cure potency equipment, implementing this aspect is simply one issue under consideration.

With that said our goal is not to make it so a certain job’s advantages are given to other jobs so they are able to do the same thing, instead we would like to look into how we can keep each job’s specialties intact and create ways that they can support other jobs.