[dev1029] SCH Feedback

[Merton9999]

Just stoped by for a random tought but what about a modus veritas effect ja for regen spells?

This has been mentioned a couple times on the SCH board and I like it. The thought was for JA recast on a much shorter timer that could increase potency and decrease duration for any recovery or enhancement over time spell. So you'd be able to choose to use it on Regen if helpful, but also on Adloquium. In addition, if Animus spells were changed to provide enmity increase or decay over time the JA could also be used for that. On a 1 minute timer, you could use this to enhance the effects on maybe 2 or 3 people but not everyone.

[Theytak]

Just stoped by for a random tought but what about a modus veritas effect ja for regen spells?

Kinda similar to what I've been thinking; a Helix-style regen. It'd be a lot more potent than the other regens in terms of hp/tick to make up for the slower tick rate (9~10 seconds instead of 3, unless I'm mistaken about the helix ticks). Similarly, it'd be greatly buffed by mnd and have innate weather/day bonus.

Using the current test server style of helices:
20~39: 30 second duration; 100~200 hp healed; between cure II and III, depending on mnd/skill/cure pot
40~59: 60 second duration; 200~400 hp healed; between cure III and cure IV, depending on mnd/skill/cure pot
60~99: 90 second duration; 400~800 hp healed; between cure IV and cure V, depending on mnd/skill/cure pot

The general idea is that it gives sch a regen that's less "regen" and more "low tier cure spam", healing bigger chunks at a time. I'm not a sch, mnd you, so I have no idea how the hp restored potency I listed compares to typical helix damage, I'm just spitballing, lol

[TimeMage]

What I see more feasible in terms of making Regens more useful is, in addition to having more potent and longer lasting Regens, a JA that instantly heals for the remaining amount of HP the Regen wouls have healed over time. Give it the proper recast (let's say... 2 minutes?), and it lets us heal using regens and cures, while being able to rely on this JA in the "OHSHI..." moments. Well, not all of them, since if timed incorrectly you could spend the JA in just a few ticks worth of HP.

It's been mentioned before, here or in the SCH formus, and I think it would be a really interesting addition to our healing arsenal.

[zell_]

Suggested Regen duration: 144 seconds (exactly 1 game hour), or 48 ticks.

Current HP rate for sch on test server, but assuming 48 tick duration:

Regen 1:
- rate: 21 (22) HP/tick.
- total potential healed: 1008 to 1056 HP.
- MP cost: 15
- HP/MP ratio: 67-70

Regen 2
- rate: 28 (30) HP/tick.
- total potential healed: 1344 to 1440 HP.
- MP cost: 36
- HP/MP ratio: 37-40

Regen 3
- rate: 36 (39) HP/tick.
- total potential healed: 1728 to 1872 HP.
- MP cost: 64
- HP/MP ratio: 27-29

Regen 4
- rate: 54 (58) HP/tick.
- total potential healed: 2592 to 2784 HP.
- MP cost: 82
- HP/MP ratio: 31-34


You can see a noticeably skewed MP efficiency imbalance between the different regens (and that's assuming they have the same durations; given the different durations on the test server, it's significantly worse).

There does not appear to be any valid reason to use different durations for the different spells. 48 ticks (1 game hour) appears to be a functionally useful duration in all cases. Therefore the only adjustments should relate to how much is cured per tick, and how it relates to MP efficiency.

Because the HP/tick rates are (on the test server) fixed increases to the previous non-boosted values, the rate at which higher tiers of the spell gain relative to the MP cost of the spell drops considerably. Regen 1 maintains an extremely high MP efficiency because of its lower MP cost, though it's HP rate increased the most (going from 6 to 22 is a 3.6x increase, compared to Regen 4's going from 34 to 58, a mere 1.7x increase).

In terms of maintaining MP efficiency, you can reach a fairly even scale across the board by changing the HP adjustment from a flat +16 to instead use 2x the base rate (before adding AF3+2 hat).

Regen 1:
- 10 (11) HP/tick
- total potential healed: 480 to 528 HP.
- HP/MP ratio: 32-35

Regen 2:
- 24 (26) HP/tick
- total potential healed: 1152 to 1248 HP.
- HP/MP ratio: 32-35

Regen 3:
- 40 (43) HP/tick
- total potential healed: 1920 to 2064 HP.
- HP/MP ratio: 30-32

Regen 4:
- 60 (64) HP/tick
- total potential healed: 2880 to 3072 HP.
- HP/MP ratio: 35-37


Regen 4 can be capped at 56 (boosted up to 60 with AF3+2 hat), for:

Regen 4:
- 56 (60) HP/tick
- total potential healed: 2688 to 2880 HP.
- HP/MP ratio: 33-35


That gives a fairly balanced effect all around.

Regens provide healing over time, but are also limited by that very fact.

If a whm casts Cure V and needs more cured *right now*, they can toss a Cure IV or Cure VI immediately. They may burn through MP fast, but they can keep casting and piling on more HP cured for as long as the MP holds out. Regens, on the other hand, have a fixed value. If you need more cured *right now*, casting another regen is useless. It just continues at its existing pace.

While the above numbers appear to cure quite a lot, they are spread out over a fairly lengthy amount of time, and potentially don't cure anything if you're not getting hurt (whereas you can just refrain from casting a Cure if someone isn't presently hurt).

What might be a comparable amount cured? A Curaga IV hitting 3 people could cure about 3000 HP in about the same amount of time it takes to cast a Regen (rather than over the next 2 and a half minutes), and (for a whm) for only slightly more MP (100 MP with Light Arts and AF3+2 pants, compared to 73 MP for a Regen 4 from sch).

Given the trade-off of the time it takes to actually receive the HP payout vs the MP spent, it does not appear to be at all unbalanced.

I would thus suggest that this is a far more reasonable and balanced improvement to how regen healing is calculated than that which is currently in place. (excluding possible secondary bonuses that have been suggested, such as regain, crit rate, +max HP, etc).

Edit: game day > game hour

my testing on page 1 shows that per tic it would heal for 68hp. all of my testing was done with af3 head on. it was believed to be a 2x increase in potency. but that was done before this most recent test server patch.
im not sure why they decreased the potency. maybe they thought it was too over powered.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

my testing on page 1 shows that per tic it would heal for 68hp. all of my testing was done with af3 head on. it was believed to be a 2x increase in potency. but that was done before this most recent test server patch.
im not sure why they decreased the potency. maybe they thought it was too over powered.

Regen V will probably reach 80.

[Lancil]

I apologize for skipping most of this thread, but as a whm I would welcome sch for the super buffed regen. With the enhanced regen per tic and longer duration it would allow me to use lower cures most of the time thus saving more mp. I would gladly welcome these changes and a sch as a support anytime.

As for the whms being able to go between cure V, VI for back to back cures I call BS. I have only used Cure VI once outside of abyssea and the was because 4 and 5 were down and I was solo healing in a low man group. Cure VI is a waste and should never be used outside of abyssea. When I am in an actual party I anticipate the other healers and throw lower cures (3-4) and only cure V when needed because I know they can back me up.

[Smokenttp]

Regen V will probably reach 80.

nice foreshadowing indeed regen V reach 80 (defult is 40)