Scholar Outside VS Inside Abyssea

[hideka]

the blm AF3 set can actually be manipulated quite easily, as Conserve MP is calculated the second your cast starts, not when it finishes. so you could have on like +50 conserve MP, giving you a 50/50 chance to proc CM, and then im assuming the full af3+2 is 50% chance to proc, giving you a 25% chance to proc.... so yea... its a weeeeeeee bit over powered, all SCH got was quick magic, and its only really useable as healer SCH, since only one-two pieces are used for nuking, but all can be used as a healer.

[Sotek]

the blm AF3 set can actually be manipulated quite easily, as Conserve MP is calculated the second your cast starts, not when it finishes. so you could have on like +50 conserve MP, giving you a 50/50 chance to proc CM, and then im assuming the full af3+2 is 50% chance to proc, giving you a 25% chance to proc.... so yea... its a weeeeeeee bit over powered, all SCH got was quick magic, and its only really useable as healer SCH, since only one-two pieces are used for nuking, but all can be used as a healer.

Head, Body, Hands and Feet are all usable for nuking. Hands and Feet may be a minor damage reduction assuming you don't have Klimaform up, though I've had the timer for Klimaform at less than its duration since before I knew we'd get Haste so I'd say Feet win. The Hands are a difference of 5MAB vs 9INT which seems ignorable to me, they certainly win if you've not got DDs around to ruin self Skill Chains. Legs are the only thing that are worthless for nuking, I really wish they were more like AFv2 hands with MND and INT.

[hideka]

head is 1000000% situational, and prevents you from utilizing ANY form of INT or MAB in your head slot whenever you want to use ebullience, the mechanic should be modified to only needing to be on when the abilitiy is activated. Hands: 8 INT is WORTHLESS inside of abyssea, and only good for helicies outside (and we all know schs totally use helicies when manaburning~!). feet are actually INCREDIBLY good, as sch dosent get access to much if any MAB on the foot slot (i may be mistaken, as im lazy and still havent picked through every single piece of new gear for every single job).

[Rambus]

The issue is that scholar is a hybrid. The hybrid shouldn't be better at the job than the specialist, or the specialist has no function. Its generally accepted in these thread that white mage should be a better healer than scholar, so I am asking why people think scholar should out damage black mage? If scholar does more damage, than flips and cures, supports, etc job balance could be over turned. Plenty of other people have made similar points with the curing aspect, I am just saying the nuking aspect may be a problem post abyssea once scholar gets Blizzard V in addition to the increase in Strategem they recently got, and the last sublimation update. My reasoning is general game balance, nothing more or less.

Discussing a topic isn't crying, not sure why I am accused of this when plenty others have argued against scholar getting Cure V. Is it because I am questioning dark arts which is most players favorite?

see:

I don’t know about your LS or anything but i find that statement ignorant. I have all jobs leveled and I always refuse to main heal on SCH. the closest it gets to that is a support cure and support buffing job. I was once in a convo when abyssea was new people use 2 whms in a tank party. I said there is no point of that, if anything a whm and a sch is better then 2 whm.

that is because you can buff tank with stoneskin, phalanx and aquaviel.

If SCH gets cure V ( and it should, like i said before its progress, you need to progress all aspects of the game otherwise your still on the cap 75 mind set. FYI FFXI is still cap 75 or has that feel, SE has not properly broke all the caps and concepts that only fit for 75). I will be the same way, if you want me be main heal I am going WHM/SCH.
WHM officers best healing per second spam and damage migration ( bar spells, bar spell gear that makes them even more incredible and shell V merits).
You take V spells from SCH then you are back to what SCH was pre update, a useless job that is second to red mage, so trying to nerf the damage of SCH nuking by taking away V spells is not the answer.
Saying I want to heal on SCH over WHM because I save more mp is ignorant.

As for damage, what about COR? Cor has been a DD/support and doing extraordinary extorny damage from buffing them selfs along with others. SCH base nuking is not stronger then BLM, it only gets that way though buffing and it takes time to do that.

You really have to understand when SCH say they can outnuke BLM its on an Ebullience and klimaform+ emp boots +2.

The recast is too long and the duration is really short.

you have to understand SCH is getting+ 10% bonus from weather, +30% with Ebullience + emp hat+2, and +10 with emp +2 boots and klimaform.

like I said when people are saying they outnuke blms they do not mean all the time, they are just saying that THEY CAN outnuke BLM because of the above buffs.

I am a bit shocked you are not compaling about other jobs doing better AoE damage then a BLM.

Please understand this, BLM base nuking is WAY better then SCH, I cannot help SCH is not buffing your BLM with weather. Point of SCH bragging is so show what they CAN do with thier buffs. SCH brag because we are tired of being called gimp or useless.

head is 1000000% situational, and prevents you from utilizing ANY form of INT or MAB in your head slot whenever you want to use ebullience, the mechanic should be modified to only needing to be on when the abilitiy is activated. Hands: 8 INT is WORTHLESS inside of abyssea, and only good for helicies outside (and we all know schs totally use helicies when manaburning~!). feet are actually INCREDIBLY good, as sch dosent get access to much if any MAB on the foot slot (i may be mistaken, as im lazy and still havent picked through every single piece of new gear for every single job).

what?

hands and feet are ok for nuking, not the best, not the worst, feet are amazing when you do Klimaform.
I use maat's cap when not ebullience.

[Raksha]

Sure and while we're at it lets nerf 12 melee jobs so they cant even come close to the best phys DD.

That is totally different. Scholar is a "hybrid" job that has both white and black mage functions. It should not be more powerful than the specialist. Melees are irrelevant to this discussion.

NIN was meant to be a debuffer/light DD, SHIT CHANGES. NIN shouldn't be able to tank as well as PLD, let alone BETTER. WAAAAAAH nerf NIN.

SCH doesnt need to be nerfed, in fact Dark Arts is fairly robust, and I have ZERO problems with it. Light Arts is what needs the work.


When you consider abyssea the problems become obvious. SCH is USELESS in Abyssea. Can't cure like a WHM, can't trigger weaknesses like a BLM, can't survive like a BLM, can't AOE like a BLM, can't buff/debuff like a RDM or BRD.



P.S. Would've replied earlier but i dont take my token w/ me to work.

[Sotek]

head is 1000000% situational, and prevents you from utilizing ANY form of INT or MAB in your head slot whenever you want to use ebullience, the mechanic should be modified to only needing to be on when the abilitiy is activated. Hands: 8 INT is WORTHLESS inside of abyssea, and only good for helicies outside (and we all know schs totally use helicies when manaburning~!). feet are actually INCREDIBLY good, as sch dosent get access to much if any MAB on the foot slot (i may be mistaken, as im lazy and still havent picked through every single piece of new gear for every single job).

No.

Its situational? So is 90% of FFXI.
If you're not going to use Ebullience, then yes bonnet is crap. That goes without saying. If you are, and lets face it most of the time you are, +10% damage is the best option.

Hands are worthless? +10% to Skill Chain damage, which as far as I know doing two nukes for a Skill Chain already out damages two Ebullience nukes (though that's not to say you can't use Ebullience with Immanence) regardless, yeah that's completely worthless. Heck, you don't even need to do two nukes, just work out a Skill Chain you can close with the DD. I say work out a Skill Chain with the DD, but of course I mean you work it out and then leech their Weapon Skills.

[Rambus]

No.

Its situational? So is 90% of FFXI.
If you're not going to use Ebullience, then yes bonnet is crap. That goes without saying. If you are, and lets face it most of the time you are, +10% damage is the best option.

Hands are worthless? +10% to Skill Chain damage, which as far as I know doing two nukes for a Skill Chain already out damages two Ebullience nukes (though that's not to say you can't use Ebullience with Immanence) regardless, yeah that's completely worthless. Heck, you don't even need to do two nukes, just work out a Skill Chain you can close with the DD. I say work out a Skill Chain with the DD, but of course I mean you work it out and then leech their Weapon Skills.

I asked someone to play with me like that to make sure it works like it should, and it does.

[Ruvion]

I love how there can be a discussion such as this when here are the facts...(taken directly from wiki)

Sch Magic Skill Ratings (Dark Arts)

Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Dark Magic
B+ 341
Divine Magic
D 280
Elemental Magic
B+ 341
Enfeebling Magic
B+ 341
Enhancing Magic
D 280
Healing Magic
D 280

Magic Skill Ratings
Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Elemental Magic
A+ 361
Dark Magic
A- 354
Enfeebling Magic
C+ 315
Enhancing Magic
E 255

The numbers don't lie, sch even with dark arts still should not be able to outnuke a blm. However, I recall reading somewhere once that sch are not mages at all but "battlefield tacticians" meaning that they should only be used to "fill a void". A sch that is being used with all those buffs to outnuke a blm is leaving it's timers maxed, or near maxed, rendering it useless if it needs to switch to light arts and toss a few cures. Still, this is a game where we have the freedom to mold our jobs the way we want to and use them as we like. And eversince day 1, people have not played jobs the way SE intended. I think we can all agree on this.

[Fetus]

I love how there can be a discussion such as this when here are the facts...(taken directly from wiki)

Sch Magic Skill Ratings (Dark Arts)

Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Dark Magic
B+ 341
Divine Magic
D 280
Elemental Magic
B+ 341
Enfeebling Magic
B+ 341
Enhancing Magic
D 280
Healing Magic
D 280

Magic Skill Ratings
Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Elemental Magic
A+ 361
Dark Magic
A- 354
Enfeebling Magic
C+ 315
Enhancing Magic
E 255

The numbers don't lie, sch even with dark arts still should not be able to outnuke a blm. However, I recall reading somewhere once that sch are not mages at all but "battlefield tacticians" meaning that they should only be used to "fill a void". A sch that is being used with all those buffs to outnuke a blm is leaving it's timers maxed, or near maxed, rendering it useless if it needs to switch to light arts and toss a few cures. Still, this is a game where we have the freedom to mold our jobs the way we want to and use them as we like. And eversince day 1, people have not played jobs the way SE intended. I think we can all agree on this.

The only thing you just pointed out was that BLM has 20 skill levels of Elemental Magic over SCH. We all know how useful that is. A SCH that is utilizing all of the stratagems available to deal obscene magic damage was probably not included in said party to be a healer, anyway. If you need someone to toss a few cures, get a WHM or RDM to do it.

[Rambus]

I love how there can be a discussion such as this when here are the facts...(taken directly from wiki)

Sch Magic Skill Ratings (Dark Arts)

Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Dark Magic
B+ 341
Divine Magic
D 280
Elemental Magic
B+ 341
Enfeebling Magic
B+ 341
Enhancing Magic
D 280
Healing Magic
D 280

Magic Skill Ratings
Skill Ranking Cap at 90
Elemental Magic
A+ 361
Dark Magic
A- 354
Enfeebling Magic
C+ 315
Enhancing Magic
E 255

The numbers don't lie, sch even with dark arts still should not be able to outnuke a blm. However, I recall reading somewhere once that sch are not mages at all but "battlefield tacticians" meaning that they should only be used to "fill a void". A sch that is being used with all those buffs to outnuke a blm is leaving it's timers maxed, or near maxed, rendering it useless if it needs to switch to light arts and toss a few cures. Still, this is a game where we have the freedom to mold our jobs the way we want to and use them as we like. And eversince day 1, people have not played jobs the way SE intended. I think we can all agree on this.

What is your point? we need addendum: Black to cast spells that a C+ elemental skill job can do freely.
so what if a SCH can outnuke a BLM? BLU can too but the question is how often? like i said here:

As for damage, what about COR? Cor has been a DD/support and doing extraordinary extorny damage from buffing them selfs along with others. SCH base nuking is not stronger then BLM, it only gets that way though buffing and it takes time to do that.

You really have to understand when SCH say they can outnuke BLM its on an Ebullience and klimaform+ emp boots +2.

The recast is too long and the duration is really short.

you have to understand SCH is getting+ 10% bonus from weather, +30% with Ebullience + emp hat+2, and +10 with emp +2 boots and klimaform.

like I said when people are saying they outnuke blms they do not mean all the time, they are just saying that THEY CAN outnuke BLM because of the above buffs.

I am a bit shocked you are not compaling about other jobs doing better AoE damage then a BLM.

base nuke SCH does not outnuke a BLM, it only gets to that point though buffs and guess what? SCH can make SCs for BLM to MB, and give weather to BLM as well.

like i said to Siiri , we brag about stuff we can do because it gets old being called useless.