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  1. #1
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    Alternative Solutions to "Cure V"

    Work in progress. As writing out the arguments for/against tend to take longer than just typing down ideas. Watch this post for updates.

    Note: All names, timers, potency,etc are tentative and open for discussion.

    Faith - White Magic
    96 WHM/SCH (Addendum:White) 99 RDM
    Enhancing Magic
    60 MP, 3 second cast, 12 Second Recast, 3 Minute Duration
    Party Target, Acessionable

    Description: Gives Target Player added "Cure" and "Waltz" Potency. Additionally their cures and waltzes will grant the effect of "Restoration."

    Details:
    Faith
    - Grants 5-15% Cure Potency, effected enhancing magic at point of cast (Follows Temper's Formula.)
    - Cure Potency Bonus effected by hard 50% Cure Potency cap.
    - Faith will work with Blue Magic cures.
    Restoration
    - 15 Second Buff that restores the total amount of 'Bonus Healing' (Amount of HP restored by Cure/Waltz Potency) over 5 'tics'. This includes Cure Potency from Gear.
    - Amount is calculated before healing 'results' (Meaning if you over-cure Restoration is not effected by it.)
    - Separate and stack-able with 'Regen' Effects.
    - Overwritten by most recent application. [Most potent?]
    - Casting on a player with the status effect resets duration (overlaps).
    - Stackable with Cureskin[?]

    Hesitation [Gravity II? Pain? Confuse?] - Black Magic
    97 RDM
    Enfeebeling Magic
    50 mp[?], .5 second cast, 45 second recast. Duration Varies (Hard 10 second cap 4 second average.)
    Enemy Target, Non-Manisfistationable

    Description: Severely hampers and enemy's damage, magic damage, and magic accuracy for a brief duration.

    Details:
    -45% Phys/Magic Damage reduction 30% Magic Accuracy reduction.
    - Resistible only through Magic Shield
    - Stacks with Saboteur
    - Does not overlap with self (will not take effect if enemy already has stays effect)


    Restrohelix - White Magic
    99 SCH
    Healing Magic
    100 MP, 3 second cast 10 second recast.
    Ally Target, Accessionable[?]

    Description: Restores Ally's HP then gradually restores HP over time.

    Details:
    - This spell a lower portion of HP on the initial cast, [Soft Cap 200?] and is repeated on each of its ticks.
    - Unlike most HoT effects, this spells ticks every 9 seconds, with an average duration of 1 minute (same as an Elemental Helix.)
    - Stacks with Cure Potency bonus and Faith [?]

    Spell Additions:
    Regen III, 83 RDM
    Regen IV, SCH 93(Addendum:White) 98 RDM


    Some Brief Notes:

    Faith.

    The Aim of Faith is to increase the amount of HP restored by ALL healing for ALL jobs. Rather than just providing quick potent heal from a few. Giving it to WHM insures that WHM itself is not dislodged by this addition.

    As the effect of Restoration works on total Cure/Waltz Potency, there is now more insensive to itemize for it. It's added strength depending on the bonus cure amount makes long recast or expensive spells like Cure VI and Healing Waltz V more useful in situations where they may not be so.

    I feel as though Faith itself might be a bit overpowered with how widely it will effect curing, but this can be regulated by toning down the amount of cure potency applied, or providing a hard cap on the amount healed by Restoration by tier.


    Hesitation:

    The goal for Hesitation was to create a "Stun/Flash" like enfeeble that will RDM specific and useful at all levels of gameplay.

    The high cost on Hesitation is to offset the possibility to Chainspell it. Making it more valuable to plan its use rather than destroy your RDM's MP pool attempting to spam it.


    Restrohelix

    The goal was to provide Scholar with the strongest HoT in the game for use of the same strategic methods as known for the job.

    Questionably Acessionable or perhaps conflicting Faith, as repeating its use might make groups down right unstoppable.

    General

    Giving RDM and SCH both higher tiers of Regen at this point would be icing on the cake, but allowing them to stack heavy Regen over Time spells should offset their Burst Curing. Enemies who still threaten to kill or near-kill enemies with frequent, heavy attacks or enemies who manage to target players who have weaker defenses will still get crushed rather quickly unless frequent burst or AoE curing is provided (read: WHM) . This will hopefully improve the general healing itself in the game while still providing a strong niche for WHMs to frequently fill.
    (3)
    Last edited by Hyrist; 10-06-2011 at 06:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
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    Phoenix
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    MNK Lv 12
    Giving the buffs to WHM would once more be a negative to the two jobs that need a buff, also making it in the 50% cap that almost all jobs can cap now would make it a junk spell.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    WHM RDM and SCH can cap cure potency, (SMN as well)if you have all the gear for it, which is not in the average.

    No other jobs can cap either BLU has almost no cure potency gear to speak of, and Waltz Potency is precious and few. Any job that /DNC or /WHM that also does not get cure potency gear also benefits from this spell.

    The cure potency on the spell would effect the potency globally, and as the Restoration effect is effected by your total Cure/Waltz potency, even casting it while having it pre-capped does not make it a junk spell. It's actually adding another 50% to your cures, which, with cure potency together, means you've doubled your cures.

    That's not junk.

    As to the buffing WHM issue. It could be conflicting with Cureskin to offset that if needed. But as I said before, the problem is not that WHM is too powerful of a healer. It's that SCH and RDM are too weak. And I do believe that their burst healing should remain a fair bit lower than WHMs, but their healing over time should be sufficient to cover the load. This keeps a strong line of difficulty in events/nms that will insure that WHM still gets it's slots. Instead of tossing RDM and SCH Cure V that, with neigh infinite MP and capped Cure Potency, they could render WHM's additional functions moot. (As well as the core functions of RDM and SCH themselves.)
    (2)
    Last edited by Hyrist; 10-06-2011 at 07:00 AM.

  4. #4
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    What? Any Whm that isn't capping cure potency is gimp, Cure potency staves are easy. Easy. A mule could build a cure potency staff. Blu is halfway to the cure potency cap and Blm, Brd and Smn can cap cure potency and they have no native spells... Even freaking Pup has cure potency gear. A cure potency effect tied to gear cap is useless for not Blu plain and simple.
    (2)
    Last edited by Neisan_Quetz; 10-06-2011 at 07:13 AM.

  5. #5
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    Are we completely ignoring the other part about this spell? What about that?

    The issue here and perhaps the reason why I limited it to the cure potency cap, is that I tied the total health 'Restore' to the total health returned from Cure Potency.

    If you have over 50% cure potency, you're effectively giving your cure more than +100% returns between the two stats. If we allow this spell to break the cure potency cap, that would have to be toned down a little. Possibly on my other suggestion of having a "Cap" on Restore returns based on the Tier of Cure/Waltz you're using.

    Would that be more acceptable? Again. I'm malleable here with these ideas, the concept is to help provide grater heal over time returns on the current existing cures globally, and further assist the potency of them.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player Mageoholic's Avatar
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    Or SE can just increase the amount all heals under cure 5 do, putting cure 4 in the area of 1K (for the average player). Its a buff to all healers. It keeps WHM safe as a main healer because a C4 would pull a lot of hate, making C5 better. It also allows for more healers in fodder content, as anything /WHM (RDM soon) would have that big heal if/when needed with C3 to support it.

    It is win win win. Cure 1 is bumped to cure 2, cure 2 to cure 3, cure 3 to cure 4, cure 4 to cure 5 (but retains its enmity values) and C5 stays the same (due to its enmity values).

    Done fixed no need to make some lame new spell to cycle, no need for some debate, bump C1-4 up one level but retain the hate mechanics. Fixed. Move on to the next issue.
    (0)
    Last edited by Mageoholic; 10-06-2011 at 03:08 PM.
    There is no min only max. Or something like that.

  7. #7
    Player Hyrist's Avatar
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    That is a solution, yes, but it treats RDM's curing issues in a vaccume.

    Dancer Still has trouble healing due to its nasty heal timers.
    BLU has cure power but struggles to sustain.

    Pup and SMN both sit on dire situation in which their recovery utilities are ultimately too flawed to be of major consideration, be it timers or AI.

    Faith might be "Another spell to Cycle" (Which I truncated by making it accessionable, and available on multiple jobs.) But it serves as a global sustain boost for all healers, and allows specific combinations of jobs to work together better than they would have before.

    Perhaps it's trying to do too much at once, but I'm of the belief that a lot of the problems in this game are interconnected and should be addressed together as a whole whenever possible.
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player Concerned4FFxi's Avatar
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    WHM Lv 99
    Give sch and rdm a spell thats like cure 4.5, and costs almost as much as cure 5, only cures a little more than cure 4, but gives the added effect of regen and say it also removes an enfeebling effect. This way those jobs can spam the spell along with cure 4 to maintain curing, yet the hate acquired and amount cured won't threaten whms but still allow rdms and schs to perform as healers. It wouldnt allow rdms or schs to replace whm if sch is not allowed to use this spell with rapture, put it on a slightly longer timer than cure 4 so whm can still outperform but rdm and sch can do the job when a whm is not around. Rdm would benifit from its fastcast trait more than sch, so there would be a difference between the two jobs thats noticeable, but a sch using cure 4 with raoture and then catsing this 4.5v would not be as fast as the rdm but could cure almost like a whm without the enmity reduction. Lets face it, Rapture is amazing, sch can already spam cure 4 and use it to boost cure so that sch already can spam (with capped cure potencey gear) 600hp cure 4 and 500hp cure3/raptures.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
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    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by Concerned4FFxi View Post
    Give sch and rdm a spell thats like cure 4.5, and costs almost as much as cure 5, only cures a little more than cure 4, but gives the added effect of regen and say it also removes an enfeebling effect. This way those jobs can spam the spell along with cure 4 to maintain curing, yet the hate acquired and amount cured won't threaten whms but still allow rdms and schs to perform as healers. It wouldnt allow rdms or schs to replace whm if sch is not allowed to use this spell with rapture, put it on a slightly longer timer than cure 4 so whm can still outperform but rdm and sch can do the job when a whm is not around. Rdm would benifit from its fastcast trait more than sch, so there would be a difference between the two jobs thats noticeable, but a sch using cure 4 with raoture and then catsing this 4.5v would not be as fast as the rdm but could cure almost like a whm without the enmity reduction. Lets face it, Rapture is amazing, sch can already spam cure 4 and use it to boost cure so that sch already can spam (with capped cure potencey gear) 600hp cure 4 and 500hp cure3/raptures.
    The issue being it doesn't go Cure III, Cure IV, Cure IV.5, Cure V

    The simplest issue which I find myself repeating a lot like a broken record is "Cure V is the spell needed, SE just need to gimp it so it's only a little more powerful for RDM and SCH compared to Cure IV"

    ---

    As for SMN they don't really have that big an issue /WHM or at 99 /RDM and they'll get Cure IV and can cap Cure Potency so much better and quicker.
    (0)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyrist View Post
    Hesitation [Gravity II? Pain? Confuse?] - Black Magic
    97 RDM
    Enfeebeling Magic
    50 mp[?], .5 second cast, 45 second recast. Duration Varies (Hard 10 second cap 4 second average.)
    Enemy Target, Non-Manisfistationable

    Description: Severely hampers and enemy's damage, magic damage, and magic accuracy for a brief duration.

    Details:
    -45% Phys/Magic Damage reduction 30% Magic Accuracy reduction.
    - Resistible only through Magic Shield
    - Stacks with Saboteur
    - Does not overlap with self (will not take effect if enemy already has stays effect)
    Stun -2

    Any time this would be useful, you'll be using stun instead. Or are we going to encourage making additional spells obsolete by having everything immune to stun but not this, like we did with Silence and Addle?
    (1)

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