Some ideas for changes for Summoner

[Malamasala]

Overload is worse for the PUP than perp cost is for the SMN. Perp cost is trivial, overload is not. There are many times when PUP is only using the automaton, and meleeing is too dangerous, thus negating your alleged benefits.

Maybe you should learn how to play PUP then. I've never had problems with overload. The fact that you can negate it completely by being good at the job makes it far less of an annoyance than perpetuation which can only be negated by level 90 armors.

And I must say I've never seen a PUP wear full time 5-10 sets of -overload armor. While seeing a SMN with perpetuation all over the armors is more of a rule than a common occurrence.

[Kensagaku]

I fail to see the problem of wearing -perp gear. After all, plenty of it comes with MP+ or other bonuses. I won't lie, I'd like a little more avatar stats on my perp set like attack+ or some more pet haste, but even so I feel it doesn't hurt as much as you make it sound like. I don't have wtf gear, maybe a few good pieces here and there, but even so I feel it's not hard to perform adequately. For example, with my perp gear, I not only negate perp cost, but I'm actually gaining back 3MP/tick (4 if I have day/weather to boost Caller's Bracers +2), looking at only my gear and barring atma. Not only that, but my set comes with huge MP bonuses, some avatar attack, some accuracy. For those who'd ask:

Fay Crozier (Perp-3, Pet: Atk/R.Atk+6, MAB+3) / Vox Grip / Nothing / Hedgehog Bomb (should get Esper Stone)
Caller's Horn +2 / Caller's Pendant / Moonshade Earring (Refresh + M.acc+4) / Gifted Earring
Caller's Doublet +2 / Caller's Bracer +2 / Evoker's Ring / Bifrost Ring
Summoner's Cape / Hierarch Belt (need the Obi!) / Augur's Brais / Caller's Pigaches +2

Yes, I've got some decent gear, mainly in the +2s and the Gifted Earring. The rest of it isn't all that hard to get. And even with all my perp- gear (-13 Perp cost total), I see various bonuses: +413 MP, +3 MP/tick Refresh (5 if you count Auto Refresh II), Avatar Regain, Avatar Acc+, a little emnity-, a boost to Avatar's Favor, etc. If you're /SCH, the hands will cut you an extra MP/tick of Refresh (I guess that means my perp cost is 2? I could prolly switch in Nash gages if I ever get them for the same effect, but I like the MP and acc boost) for several avatars, and at 99 it'll do so for all but Ramuh, Carby, and the Dark elemental avatars. I sorta wish we'd get Thunderstorm as I actually use Ramuh but meh. Work with what you've got, right?

Quoting you, Mala: "Maybe you should learn how to play PUP then. I've never had problems with overload."

Maybe you should learn how to play SMN then, I've never had problems with perp cost and still keeping fairly useful bonuses.

[Malamasala]

Maybe you should learn how to play SMN then, I've never had problems with perp cost and still keeping fairly useful bonuses.

To get a perspective, imagine a BST wearing full SMN empyrean +2.

-Perpetuation, so that no BST pets cost MP. (They didn't from start, but hey, same result as a SMN shouldn't be brushed off!)

Enhances pet macc. Great. All BST pets who do magic moves will have better accuracy. SCORE!

+skill. Well, that is kind of like +ws accuracy for BST sic commands. Awesome!

Enhances siphon. Well, BST doesn't use siphon so lets assume BST version instead have "enhances heel command".



See my point? No other job would think SMN stats were good. It is just SMNs who've never once had a decent armor that go "Wow, this is much better than old armors! This one has for example def 27, my old had def 19!"

Just take a moment and think and it should be clear to you as well. (Like if ALL your bonuses were WS only on a melee armor set, would you wear it full time? No you'd want a TP set. SMN has no TP set, only a WS set we full time.)

[Soranika]

=\ I find it incredeble that you parade around so long as SMN being your #1 job and hate pretty much what make the job what it is. Perpetuation cost is a necessary crutch that will only hinder you if you let it. All of summoner specific gear has been about augmenting and enhancing avatar performance. AF3 set not only addresses perpetuation cost pretty much extensively, all the pieces increases avatar performance greatly, save for blood pact time reduction. It's really hard to actually see validation in your argument against the set and perpetuation cost.

And it's really hard to compare to jugmasters... lol I mean beastmasters, who have their own things to deal with, like finding charm and charmed pets utterly useless to the job. Their set of issues as a pet job is unrelated to SMN issues as a pet job.

[Kensagaku]

To get a perspective, imagine a BST wearing full SMN empyrean +2.

-Perpetuation, so that no BST pets cost MP. (They didn't from start, but hey, same result as a SMN shouldn't be brushed off!)

Enhances pet macc. Great. All BST pets who do magic moves will have better accuracy. SCORE!

+skill. Well, that is kind of like +ws accuracy for BST sic commands. Awesome!

Enhances siphon. Well, BST doesn't use siphon so lets assume BST version instead have "enhances heel command".



See my point? No other job would think SMN stats were good. It is just SMNs who've never once had a decent armor that go "Wow, this is much better than old armors! This one has for example def 27, my old had def 19!"

Just take a moment and think and it should be clear to you as well. (Like if ALL your bonuses were WS only on a melee armor set, would you wear it full time? No you'd want a TP set. SMN has no TP set, only a WS set we full time.)

..........

Did you just compare a SMN's style of play to a BST? I have both level 95, and play both fairly regularly, and I have the sense to know that the playstyle is completely different, so different armors apply to different situations...

But to use your own (poorly chosen) arguments:

-Comparing an Avatar's reduction in perp cost is like a reduction in how much gil jugs cost. Sure, there are those that craft jugs, but leveling a craft is about equivalent in effort to getting avatar perpetuation gear, nullifying costs in both ways... hey look, you have to do work for a job, shocker! It's not like SMN can't summon a new pet every 30 seconds versus BST getting one every few minutes, and oh, don't forget, you're not limited by quantity of jugs you have on you! And if you're having MP issues, you're doing something wrong.

-Enhancing pet M.acc... again the different style of play comes in. Avatars have a large number of magical BPs, and as a result improving their M.acc means less resists and more damage. BSTs, on the other hand, focus more on melee. Yet look, none of our AF3+2 has "Enhances Pet Accuracy". Thankfully the mantle makes up for that. Complain less, SMN gets a buff that's relevant to one of their damage styles (unless you're one of those WoE SMNs that throws Garuda at skeletons...)

-+skill has multiple uses, or don't you know how to play SMN? BP Ward duration (I love keeping Earthen Armor, Hastega, etc up for longer), Elemental Siphon boost, and SMN M.acc/P.acc for BPs. It's more than just WS acc.

-Enhances Siphon: Oh hey look, extra MP is bad for a job that is MP reliant. I forgot.

You can't just willy-nilly compare jobs that have completely different playstyles and applications. You're just looking for an excuse to play the "Oh, SMN is terrible" victim card. SMN has plenty of great equipment; it's just that its relevant applications are few at the moment due to the community's style of play.

An afterthought, now that it came to mind: You mentioned that SMNs are in a full-time WS set? Are you kidding? If you fulltime something like the set I have above, then you're doing it wrong. You should be switching into a bunch of different gear for both physical and magical BPs. For magical, get a Shareeravadi+3 for Pet: MAB, as well as a Caller's Sash, Tiresias' Cape, Summoning Magic gear, etc. For physical, get a Soulscorge or the Shareeravadi+3 on the fire path (I didn't bother to do another because that would mess up macros), then add pet: attack (Mujin Obi, Summoner's Pigaches, etc), accuracy, and skill to make up the rest.

If you're fulltiming your set for BPs, then it's the equivalent of a WAR using Ukko's in their TP set... reduced potency, and overall a poor choice of gear.

[Camate]

We are currently looking into enhancing elemental spirits.

However, rather than simply adjusting their behavior, we feel that everyone might enjoy things a bit more if we were to do something different, so we feel this is a bit low on the priority scale. However, if you feel differently please let us know!

[Malamasala]

We are currently looking into enhancing elemental spirits.

However, rather than simply adjusting their behavior, we feel that everyone might enjoy things a bit more if we were to do something different, so we feel this is a bit low on the priority scale. However, if you feel differently please let us know!

You have no idea how much this post means to me. (But since I put it in my sig, it may be a hint).

My personal priority list would be:

1. Ward effect scaling with levels (or summoning skill), and no moon phase/time of day reliance

2. Splitting Global BP timers into more timers (but I guess I'll settle for that coming -BP ability, if it will work)

3. Spirits

4. Cait Sith and Atomos (Because frankly we all expect these to just be clones of carbuncle and diabolos and be mostly useless)

X. More armors with +pet haste/double attack/triple attack combined with master haste/accuracy/attack/STR/double attack. ("X" as in can be implemented with any of the coming updates since it is just armor bonuses)



Anyhow, can you share any information about what the current developer ideas are for Spirits? I have a hard time imagining a new different system since I've always focused on them just being the same but not worthless.

We have been brainstorming some on these forums before of course. With things like comboing avatars + spirits so the spirit kind of tags along and nukes while the avatar fights. Or stuff like summon spirit, gain access to all BLM or WHM spells of their element as your own spells. Considering we are on 50% of all the BLM and WHM armors, perhaps that wouldn't be a bad system to make us use the armors we are given.

Also, any timeframe on this? I'm assuming -BP timer and new avatars for march level 99 cap raise, so perhaps after summer?

[Leonlionheart]

Very low on the priority scale

[Zubis]

Very low on the priority scale.

Don't get me wrong I think it's awesome these issues are acknowledged, but if I were asked to assign a dev to enhancing spirits or adding the -BP ability that might be on the cards...well it's an easy choice.

Basically, work on the BP timer first. Everything else is delicious gravy.

[Luvbunny]

Sorry summoners, our job is VERY LOW in the priority, extremely low, maybe in 5 years low... This type of response is somewhat offensive. For a game that is bringing them ACTUAL money from paying subscribers, improving and updating the game should be VERY HIGH in the priority. Let's see how many people will actually pay for the hot mess that is FF14 by this December shall we? Charging for a full year before they release the version 2 is a very smart business move, if your intention is to just kill that business. On the other hand, might as well just kill FF14 so they can focus on 11 - in retrospect, starting to charge a year before hand is a very smart move.

There are tons of fixes that they need to do with summoner still but I doubt they will do it soon. Beast and Pup finally got the love they deserve, it is about time we do as well. For some reasons the developer really really hate summoner job....