Some ideas for changes for Summoner

[Soranika]

I'm starting to see what people mean with the constant flow of negativity...
Razushu pretty much hid it. The emyprean armor out preforms a lot of expectations outside of the -7 perp cost, refresh +2 and additional -perp cost on day/weather conditions with +2. Instant 200% TP with mana cede with +2 hands plus TP bonus with pants means maxing out damage or healing properties of blood pacts. Of course I use maxing loosely when you consider blood boon augment.

The only real short coming of the summoner emyprean armor is blood pact delay. It's poorly addressed in with the very few additions to accessories unless you gear swamp YY robe and other equipment. Again though, stated by others.

[Brightshadow]

As for Odin and Alexander, there's some kind of story behind keeping them out... end of the world... something or another. Stop caring about that months they were released. It's a pipe dream to want them as regular summons though.

-To me that excuse is something like what they did with Bahamut, the truth is the lore can always be added on, and I see much potential for these two as regular avatars why should we at high levels be receiving more cute avatars like Caitsith instead of something bad@ss like Odin and Alexander heck or even bahamut.

If you removed the perp, half of the point to the trails stalves would be negated.

-Of course if you remove perp the bonus would be replaced with something new.

Summary of idea: Make SMN less expensive for the worst geared SMN and more expensive for the best geared SMN.

I like it.

-not really, with the best geared SMN they would have gear that improves MP, refresh etc.

"Summoner is the only pet job that has such a bad hindrance to deal with, and that is Perpetuation cost." Overload and Burden are as bad if not a worse hinderance than perp cost, which is really very trivial. Summoner's real problem is blood pact timers.

-But unlike Puppetmasters if the puppet is overloaded they still stay in the field and provide assistance, and Puppetmaster can melee. While Summoner is solely supported by there avatars.

I still think it is a shame that SMN is the only job you have to gear to avoid penalties. I don't wear perpetuation gear to be better, I do it to not be worse than all other jobs.

-100% agree, other jobs can equip other type of gear and they are fine, but if we decide to equip MP gear then our perp cost will hinder us.

While it's pretty easy to negate, I'd have to agree that it's necessary. It has the greatest effect in the lowest levels, where pets are very powerful relative to other jobs. If perpetuation cost didn't exist, they'd probably have weakened the avatars in some way more than they already are.

-Compared to a melee at low levels they are useless, only thing good about them is there bloodpacts and we pay MP for those. I think its wrong for a job that can't do anything for themselves and beg there pets to do there bidding can't have strong pets.

[Soranika]

You're a bit incorrect in your last statement. At low levels, most of your blood pacts have skill chain properties. If you ever bothered to solo, before 70, self skill chaining was where it was at. I mean if you bothered to go the melee route to solo leveling than going off kiting on bombs.

[Alhanelem]

-But unlike Puppetmasters if the puppet is overloaded they still stay in the field and provide assistance, and Puppetmaster can melee. While Summoner is solely supported by there avatars.

Overload is worse for the PUP than perp cost is for the SMN. Perp cost is trivial, overload is not. There are many times when PUP is only using the automaton, and meleeing is too dangerous, thus negating your alleged benefits.

-100% agree, other jobs can equip other type of gear and they are fine, but if we decide to equip MP gear then our perp cost will hinder us.

100% disagree, because we alerady established that SMN isn't the only job with artificial limitations.

Also, almost all perp - gear has MP on it. Your reasoning makes no sense, you don't have to give up max MP to get perp cost. You don't have to give up offensive benefits for perp cost either, since you only need to have that stuff on when using a blood pact.

In short, SMN doesn'tneed to sacrifice much to deal with perp cost. It's a minor hinderance that is mostly applicable to low levels.

[Dallas]

-not really, with the best geared SMN they would have gear that improves MP, refresh etc.

The best geared SMN get back 1500MP with a single WS. There's nothing to spend it on but perp.

[Razushu]

Overload is worse for the PUP than perp cost is for the SMN. Perp cost is trivial, overload is not. There are many times when PUP is only using the automaton, and meleeing is too dangerous, thus negating your alleged benefits.

100% disagree, because we alerady established that SMN isn't the only job with artificial limitations.

Also, almost all perp - gear has MP on it. Your reasoning makes no sense, you don't have to give up max MP to get perp cost. You don't have to give up offensive benefits for perp cost either, since you only need to have that stuff on when using a blood pact.

In short, SMN doesn'tneed to sacrifice much to deal with perp cost. It's a minor hinderance that is mostly applicable to low levels.

Even if we had to give up max MP for perp cost it wouldn't matter, any decent geared SMN will have the means to restore enough MP to fight continously, even without having to worry about getting TotM staves or Hvergelmir.

[Evilvivi]

The best geared SMN get back 1500MP with a single WS. There's nothing to spend it on but perp.

Incorrect sir.

The best geared SMN would have a fully upgraded Nirvana, not an emp staff.

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: Still superfluous in that situation.

[Soranika]

Only in Abyssea...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Get mp back > Impact in between Blood pacts obviously. Why didn't you all see it before?!