Fix Weakness on Ranged attacks

[Saelae]

Keep in mind that melee are at a very high risk of death from AoE well due to low max HP if they try to zombie DD. While MP isn't too much of a concern in Abyssea, raise does takes quite a bit of time to cast during which the caster can't do anything else. On top of that, if they died in AoE range, they also have to make sure they don't raise up into an AoE and waste even more time/MP. So while yes, they can die over and over and be just as effective as after one death, each subsequent death further lowers their damage uptime and requires a mage to dedicate time to raise them that could be spent doing other things.

Regardless, if you died 2x in a row, something went horribly wrong and you should focus on trying to play better instead of complaining about a justifiable penalty for mistakes.

[Mirabelle]

The whole purpose of weakened state is to limit your abilities significantly to make dying a substantial penalty. If you are double weakened on RNG then you are out of the fight end of story. Get healthy and come back in 5 min. This is a fine game mechanic. Melee aren't doing great things double weakened anyway and a RNG is significantly better off with single weakness.
If you are dying so much, improve your tactics or skills. The game shouldn't allow you to zombie anything you want.

[Froggis]

If we break it down, mages get it the worst as they get slow effects and 0 magical dmg. Rng cannot actually deal dmg even if the attack hits (during double weak). Melees get slow effects.

melee can die as many times as they like and get right back up, do a ws for a !!. Mages can still trigger though they will deal 0 dmg (thus a benefit at this point since 0 dmg = less hate). Ranger cannot deal damage nor trigger.

I see no fair distribution. I understand the "balance" thing, but balance would mean: melees should have a real/more significant double weak penalty, rng gets a single weak penalty and no double weak penalty, or everyone has a single and double weak penalty. Really if you want balance, the last one is the only truly fair one, but it would make the game miserable. Would be much more logical and fair to simply impose a snapshot-50 (equiv to slow+100) effect for rng weakness* and no double weakness, and mage's dmg issue would be debatable since it can be beneficial, but really dealing 0 dmg during double weak is out-dated in this age of Voidwatch where 5 min is 16.6% of the battle.

*whatever slow the others get (not sure [50 then 100?]) while single/double weak should be converted to snapshot- is what I'm saying for rng

[noodles355]

why should melee get a more significant double weak penalty? their single weak penalty sucks much more than ranger's. Rng can still work at 100% pretty much and doesn't have to worry about low HP and dying again to AoEs. Melees attack slower and stay in AoE range for longer meaning they're more likely to die again. Melees have a significant disadvantage. It definitely makes for a fair balance

[Froggis]

why should melee get a more significant double weak penalty? their single weak penalty sucks much more than ranger's. Rng can still work at 100% pretty much and doesn't have to worry about low HP and dying again to AoEs. Melees attack slower and stay in AoE range for longer meaning they're more likely to die again. Melees have a significant disadvantage. It definitely makes for a fair balance

Current relative RNG content includes Voidwatch primarily. AoEs are 20' and to ws (while single weak for rng), you have to be within 20'... if you get hit, you're useless in every way. Mages can still get procs, so can melees. Why should rng have a 16.6% (5/30min) of the battle penalty where they cannot proc while every other job still can?

[noodles355]

Or just learn to run in after AoEs. Jesus it's like RNGs saying Ixion was hard cus they kept dying to Lightning Spear lol.

Single weak: Rng shoots for TP out of AoE range, runs into WS. Melee has to stay in AoE range for both TP and WS. Obviously situation dependant on whether you TP on them at all or just use regain, but for those where you do, Rng has a significant advantage that balances out with melees working the same weak and double weak.

And you realise if you are double weak in VW, you could just throw on an axe/sword/dagger and go for ws procs with those.

[Lumiya]

And you realise if you are double weak in VW, you could just throw on an axe/sword/dagger and go for ws procs with those.

Ok, now I have to call you on it noodles. You are just plain silly. Melee RNG? No such thing. We can't even wear any haste gear! Not to mention our horrible accuracy while meleeing. RNG never has been and never will be a melee!

[esoR]

GRAB YOUR AXES! WE FIGHT!

[Froggis]

Or just learn to run in after AoEs. Jesus it's like RNGs saying Ixion was hard cus they kept dying to Lightning Spear lol.

Single weak: Rng shoots for TP out of AoE range, runs into WS. Melee has to stay in AoE range for both TP and WS. Obviously situation dependant on whether you TP on them at all or just use regain, but for those where you do, Rng has a significant advantage that balances out with melees working the same weak and double weak.

And you realise if you are double weak in VW, you could just throw on an axe/sword/dagger and go for ws procs with those.

Cearly you've never done much VW because you'd know that double weak is inevitable for any real rng (empy/relic/mythic). All the Jeuno and Zilart t2 have terrible moves, like the burn from the t2 jeuno corse's Hadal Summons. From various deaths, it is not an aura - it stays through death. Like, you reraise and its back on, so without a whm or vicars you die again (it can be erased an will not reappear).

So if you have done VW, t2 zilart/jeuno and above, please logically explain how you NEVER been double weakened on rng, cuz apparently you never have done VW or never on RNG at those tiers.

I see the axe/dagger thing, but who will hit the archery trigs? and when you run all the way in to ws now (since its not a ranged ws), you get killed again and cant do archery trigs for another 5 min.

Not going to argue anymore about it; negating a job's ability to hit their unique triggers for 16.6% of a battle is completely unreasonable.

[Camate]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I bring some information about your request. Hopefully it will shed some light on where the development team stands.

Currently for ranger, when you’re afflicted with double weakness, ranged attacks will always miss. Since this makes WS miss as well, it’s not possible to exploit weaknesses in VW and other content. Could you please make these misses act as zero damage instead of a pure miss?

Elemental magic is also penalized while under the effects of double weakness, but it does not miss, it only becomes zero damage, thus allowing it to be used to exploit weaknesses in VW.
Could you please look into this?

It’s not that it will always miss, but when you become K.O.ed while under the effects of weakness, your attack accuracy becomes extremely low. The method of determining accuracy for close range attacks and ranged attacks is different, and this effect is more noticeable for ranged attacks where the accuracy floor is much lower.

I believe that your request is asking whether we can increase this floor; however, if we did this, monsters would also need to undergo this change.
*Monsters will never be under the effects of weakness, but think of this as ranged attacks from lower level monsters hitting players with a greater degree of accuracy.

Also, when you are KO’d while weak, limitations are set to lower your contribution to the battle and making adjustments in the direction of negating these limitations is like putting the cart before the horse.

While the thought is to have a penalty and have players be mindful in battle so they don’t get KO’d repeatedly, for the example you gave about Voidwatch, we understand that currently there is a lot of AoE damage and it is easy to get caught up in it and die. For this, we would like to make adjustments to the content itself so as to not create situations where you need to fight while weakened.