Level 99 - Trial of the Citadel

[Seha]

/blm MAB 3 Om nom nom!

Lv 100.

[Seriha]

Can't believe people can't see how granting composure at Sub-Job level would completely kill RDM, RDM's AF3 Armour wouldn't stop that.

I'm not seeing it, to be honest. Okay, so anyone /RDM could Haste, Refresh, Stoneskin, and Phalanx themselves for triple duration. From what I've seen trying to Accession spells off myself, others will still wear off normally. Others also won't have the +2 set to nearly double durations. Admittedly, I'm curious what would happen with SCHs using Perpetuance (additive or multiplicative?), but they'd still want to be using Sublimation over Refresh since its buff. Otherwise, I doubt the ACC bonus would revolutionize the gameplay of BLMs, SCHs, SMNs, or WHMs. Ya know, rabid community perception of mage melee 'n all.

Part of me is glad Refresh and Convert weren't nerfed in any way as a sub. I always felt them over-hyped and one of the continually used excuses to not give RDM any attention over the years. Others gaining access to it killed that monopoly and finally allowed people to start looking more toward the issues the job had and still does. You'll find plenty of disagreement on what should and shouldn't be addressed, sure, but the job should be a hell of a lot more than an MP battery.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

/blm MAB 3 Om nom nom!

Lv 100.

Don't forget Elemental Celerity which unlike JA's traits are never blocked.

[Winrie]

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol. And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol. And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

Erm.. people that like the job would care, not everyone goes BAA!!!!

[Swords]

I think too many people in this thread are under the assumption that we would keep all lvl 50 JAs and traits if our cap was 100 instead of 99, I think that would equal uhh broken game? But seriously, who cares if a sj composure would kill RDM, RDM is already dead lol.

Trying to make one problem worse isn't exactly the best thing to advertise, the main problem with RDM is most everything we have to our name was/is under 50. While most jobs got progressively more new JA, Spells, Traits as levels went up RDM for the most part had stopped growing or fell far behind in those areas. Taking the last thing they really have that differentiates them from other jobs in a group setting is just putting another nail in the coffin, but what do other jobs care about jobs they don't play as long as it benefits them right? I'm sure the WHM community wouldn't nerdrage if heaven forbid they ever got Cure V and things changed back to the days of the little pink bird parties.

And if one JA would kill a job then it wasnt worth playing to begin with. But seriously, level cap 100, its easy, its called bump all lvl 50 JAs that could overpower sub jobs and make them level 51, end of discussion.

The whole point of hitting 100 would be because of those JA/traits/spells gained from the level 50 SJ, otherwise there's really no point to this discussion.

[Amador]

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content.

They'll never have Esuna, Aflatus Solace, Aflatus Misery, Divine Seal Na-spell-ga, Yagrush, Null Damage Bar Spells, Repose, Cure VI, Curaga V Curaga IV. All of which make WHM a prime healer.

Will they ever get Cure V? More than likely, will it be soon? Maybe.

Level 100 offers a lot more than 3-4 Abilities people may or may not use. In the end, even if 1 or 2 classes decided to sub RDM for Composure so what? It doesn't mean anything at all. Level 100 means more combat, and offensive combat skill points, more stats, more hp, more mp, more level correction bonus, potentially ROLE DEFINING JOB TRAITS AND ABILITIES that would seem REAL official at 100. The introduction of the new merit system. I mean, none of this kills a job.

It's a baseless discussion, and people here crying wolf. RDM has a huge value in the situations it's applicable in. It's a great back-up support job. It can enfeeble, cure, deal damage, and buff. As a whole, RDM is insanely powerful.

Again, it's just a preference of 99 vs 100. It's not about worrying about balancing, how can you balance an unfinished product? You can't.

[Swords]

WHM was superior back at 75 too, but that didn't stop WHM's from having their job literally overhauled in order to take back their spot as main healer from RDM. Of course RDM had several things going for them back then that no one else had, Refresh, Convert, Cure III/IV could heal a respectable amount of hp, solid enfeebles, and I suppose you could count Composure for increased buff duration since it came in shortly before the cap rise.

However, as the levels rose RDM stopped getting party support spells and cures, Enfeebles were severely hindered in new content due to immunity and flat resistance rates (Yes Enfeebling is stupidly broken atm), and what support we were used for at 75 fell into other jobs laps from subbing RDM. So essentially everything that was defining RDM fell behind or was given to everyone else, anything new that we've received has mostly been self buffs which does not do much for a group except our melee ability (which many are vehemently against though SE seems content on going in that direction).

[Amador]

I can't really agree with this. RDM has always had it's place 75 and above. RDM was the original solo job if you took it to those lengths.

To this date, what has RDM gained? The ability to further enfeeble and destroy a monster with devastating magic such as T4. There really is not reason why a RDM shouldn't have a place in group oriented event. It still plays it's roles, and is respected in them. If your linkshell and or the player base you associate with feel that RDM isn't a requirement or a needed instrument in their strategy then that's simply choice and custom strategy.

WHM was always great. It simply obtained greater abilities which emphasized it's role as a healer. RDM is a multi-role job, always has been always will be. Which is why the devs can even justify crap like Temper and En-Spells II. Simple.

The only enfeebles that were removed were enfeebles such as Gravity and things that could contribute to 3 hour fights even being possible. This was a smart and tactical move, no one enjoyed walking up to ANYWHERE that was reputable for gear/drops and have to wait 3 hours for the kill, simply to get a TOD. The hindering of those abilities wasn't just RDM directed. Plenty of other jobs suffered too. BLM, BLU, SCH.

End result is, RDM has it's practicality and usefulness. Which will be greatly emphasized in the future. No reason to harp on "But we won't be unique or as cool anymore" pointless, and baseless.

[Economizer]

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content.

Regardless of how RDM's may feel, they'll never trump a WHM's support ability in a party against hard content while subbing Scholar for Light Arts.

No serious White Mage subs Red Mage.

Sub Scholar means B+ Enhancing, cheaper spells, stratagems, and faster recasts.

If you need massive amounts of MP, guess what? Light Arts plus a Refresh source will trump Convert. And I don't mean Refresh I, because Sublimation matches that. If Refresh sources from gear don't provide enough of a kick, you remember this is a MMO, and invite someone else to your party to augment this. I wonder what job is a great way to lessen MP strain on the White Mage while providing more MP to the White Mage?

There is no reason why White Mage being able to sub for Composure would obsolete Red Mage, just as there is no reason a White Mage would sub Red Mage in a party position on "hard" content, aside from not having Scholar leveled.

If I was a Red Mage worried about being obsoleted by White Mage, I'd worry way more about a White Mage getting more stratagems from sub Scholar then Composure from sub Red Mage as the result of a 100/50 cap. Shoot, I'd be more worried about Convert, but even that is a joke compared to sub Scholar.