Ochain trials... why?

[Kimjongil]

Ochain has hardly any benefit from being upgraded past 90. Aegis is not only easier and cheaper to upgrade but breaks a Damage Taken cap in a way no other gear in the game does for that damage type, making it insanely powerful, any upgrade to that effect only makes it more powerful, and it can get to the point of practically negating all magic damage. BRDs upgrade because of an additional song for doing so, not the duration, and the duration is the same benefit practically as what Ochain gives, a small benefit which helps but is not anywhere near the millions or hundreds of millions required to upgrade it to 99. Ochain literally gives you a whole 10% more MP per block, a great boon for the shield, not worth the cost, and that is the only change from 90 to 99. There are no 119 upgrades, if there were, you would see a lot more people going for plates to upgrade their Ochain, till then, 10% extra MP from blocks will not come close to being worth it.

I agree with you t has little benefit, same for 119 empy staff. Heck AA taru staff owns 119 empy. But the sad point is a lvl 90 shield is better than any shield 29 lvls higher than it and pld cry to make it.

[Demonjustin]

All I was saying is there is a reason why people don't take it to 99, you said...

I have no pity for Ochain people. Most ochain users are lvl 90. and wielding 119 gear. Yet a lvl 90 shield beats out all new gear, B.S. if most people took that shield to 99 or 119 then I say sure. But a shield -30 levels under current gear content is a joke that it is still supreme.

Which seems like you expect people to upgrade it, when the benefit is so little that one would be a fool to upgrade this unless they are an amazingly diehard PLD who has everything else they could really want.

Just because people don't take it to 99 doesn't mean that it should be such a pain to make one, and the fact its 29 levels lower than everything else is even more reason why it should be easier to make, instead, souls are the worst part of this trial and SE has seemingly said that at this point we are just going to have to deal with it.

[Martel]

I agree with you t has little benefit, same for 119 empy staff. Heck AA taru staff owns 119 empy. But the sad point is a lvl 90 shield is better than any shield 29 lvls higher than it and pld cry to make it.

The clear solution is to add 119 a upgrade to Ochain. XD The pained howls of PLDs everywhere who suddenly MUST get 1500 plates and then 60 dross echo across vana'diel. Mine included, lol.

But if the upgrade included any increase in block dmg- or skill+ then I'd jump right on board. And if it didn't, nothing would have changed, and only PLDs with nothing left to make would upgrade it.

[dasva]

The clear solution is to add 119 a upgrade to Ochain. XD The pained howls of PLDs everywhere who suddenly MUST get 1500 plates and then 60 dross echo across vana'diel. Mine included, lol.

But if the upgrade included any increase in block dmg- or skill+ then I'd jump right on board. And if it didn't, nothing would have changed, and only PLDs with nothing left to make would upgrade it.

Well if it goes like the 95 and 99 upgrades go the changes will be +40 vit and 45% dmg converted to mp. <.<.

Not that I want to have to retrial but I seriously don't understand why, now especially with things attack for 600 base dmg and uncapping block rates on ochain, that ochain and aegis both didn't gain any block rate or defense as you trialed them up. I mean I remember them saying before how Ochain was effectively ilvl 150 or something but a 117 shield already comes rather close. So that doesn't really seem to fit. Sounds like really it will be trumped next ilvl increase.

[FaeQueenCory]

The clear solution is to add 119 a upgrade to Ochain. XD The pained howls of PLDs everywhere who suddenly MUST get 1500 plates and then 60 dross echo across vana'diel. Mine included, lol.

But if the upgrade included any increase in block dmg- or skill+ then I'd jump right on board. And if it didn't, nothing would have changed, and only PLDs with nothing left to make would upgrade it.

So true... even if it was a thing to 119 Ochain and Aegis... given the iLvfication of the other REMs... the only benefit from iLving them would be more fake skills.
Cause pretty much only SMN's Mythic got a real change in potency from the iLvs: +2 levels, +40MAB>>>+40%BPdmg
And given the hidden effects on both, the fake skill isn't really worth anything.... because it's kinda redundant.

Well if it goes like the 95 and 99 upgrades go the changes will be +40 vit and 45% dmg converted to mp. <.<.

It's more likely that would they do this... the stat buffs will remain unchanged... just fake skill and other iLv bloat would be added. (though in the case of shield, just +shield skill)
Just like all the nonNirvana REMs.

Not that I want to have to retrial but I seriously don't understand why, now especially with things attack for 600 base dmg and uncapping block rates on ochain, that ochain and aegis both didn't gain any block rate or defense as you trialed them up. I mean I remember them saying before how Ochain was effectively ilvl 150 or something but a 117 shield already comes rather close. So that doesn't really seem to fit. Sounds like really it will be trumped next ilvl increase.

Heck, I've gotten Ochain level block rates with Beautific. Sure for less DR... but still, a 113 shield with 113 level skill bonus and a visible effect that mimics the hidden effect of a supposed "150" level shield...
I've never believed the "ochain is 150" arguments people make.... because I believe it stems from a critical understanding failure:
"ochain has the block rate of a iLv150 shield" =/= "ochain is iLv150"

And like I mentioned previously.... which you substantiate, Dasva, high levels of shield skill that comes from iLv shields becomes redundant when combined with the hidden effects of Aegis and Ochain. (which is most readily apparent on a lower iLv shield with less shield skill and the visible effect: beautific.... the 119 Beautific is gonna be sick.)

[Ophannus]

They said Ochain was equivalent to a ilvl150 shield so I doubt they'd buff it anytime soon?

[dasva]

The problem is Ochain clearly isn't anywhere near ilvl 150. The 117 is darn close and in a lot situations better. And the new skirmish+1 shield looks like it might be fairly comparable as well and is equippable by alot of jobs. Ochain seems to be more like ilvl 120 at most

[Martel]

What the heck happened in here? We seem to have lost a few posts somehow. 2 of them mine, irrc. <,<

[FaeQueenCory]

The problem is Ochain clearly isn't anywhere near ilvl 150. The 117 is darn close and in a lot situations better. And the new skirmish+1 shield looks like it might be fairly comparable as well and is equippable by alot of jobs. Ochain seems to be more like ilvl 120 at most

This is what I've seen too, though mostly at looking at different PLDs in random WKRs. (which is pretty much the only place you're gonna be able to observe two plds block the same thing, one with Ochain and the other with another shield. What I'm remembering was specifically two PLDs: one Ochain, the other a r15 Delve shield.... Being SMN give you enough leeway to still cap your evals and watch other people near you.)

Ochain being 150 is, flat out, a heinous lie. (just like not using Rem Tales for the Relic and Empyrean gear update.)
Maybe back before they had the influx of fake skill and reevaluation of what iLvs mean... the addition of stat bloat... all that stuff...
I'm pretty sure that Ochain = 150 is erroneous now due to one fact:
iLv 117 Balsam went from +60MAB to +120.
As a mess of other stats on various items were adjusted similarly in the aforementioned update.
Ochain = 150 may have been true at the beginning of iLvs... but given how iLvs have been readjusted... it holds no water anymore. (and I suspect that the huge adjustment update was also when they decided that iLv119 would be the cap.)

[Kawar]

There's been so many threads complaining about this, every week a new one pops up with the exact same complaints. Not to say they aren't valid, but it's all been discussed to death.

I'll say it here again, personally I don't think it's too bad. It's more casual-gamer friendly than other trials, even if it takes longer. I still know (several) people who got 75 souls in less than a week with the right dedication, and even if it takes a month or so, it's definitely not complain worthy imo.

Well i am going to say as a guy who is on souls right now.It is really not that bad at all the little trick everyone uses is make 3 T3 pops then pop 1 at a time in each Zone if they both drop 2 you can get 6 souls that way and it is not that bad if you do it like that or you have some friends like me who are willing to let me get there souls from pops they have laying around.I do not know about horns but from what people tell me that is really not that bad at all ether.all i can say is keep at it you will be very very happy in the end.