[Soap Box] {Lock On} & general charity shouts

[Toggles]

For what it's worth, I quit the game over three years ago only to come back about 3 month ago. So there may be some sort of 'shock' happening here.

Disclaimer, I'm NOT talking about brewed or previously acquired pop set {Lock On}s. I'm also NOT talking about shouts for equal participation/equal reward like 4 people grouping up to kill <seal dropper z> with each having 1 job locked.


With all that said, what is going on with all the 'charity' shouts I've been seeing these days? Is it just me? Is it just my server? Is this now the norm of FFXI?

What I'd define as a charity shout is a person or people shouting for help with a mob with virtually no reward or completely skewed rewards for those who answer.

Too often will I see people have shouts like these(which I consider as charity/no reward):
Shinryu {do you need it} {lock on} mail & knife 1/6 whm and mnk w/ proc
-I answer, join the party and find out shouter isn't brewing it; why does he get to lock not 1 but 2 top tier items?

<job A> <job B> seals {do you need it} 1/4
-This person wants to lot 2 seals but still have 3 people join. No I'm not talking about when people typo 2/4 as 1/4.

<timed spawn NM> {do you need it} {lock on} w/e all else FL 1/xx
-I join the party assuming I can lock 1 item which the shouter did not... nope! Shouter expects to get more people than the NM has drops and have everyone 'fight' for lots while shouter gets free/guaranteed drops.

<atma> {do you need it} ;may or may not job nazi
-I join, EVERYTHING is locked. Ok np I want the atma. Oh btw we have to farm the pop set . . . Oh btw, you have to stay to farm/pop 5 more after getting the atma. Some even go as far as not procing the atma until a few pops into it or the last pop.




How do people justify the idea that shouting for something takes so much effort that they are now entitled to such outrageous demands? It reminds me of the days when endgame LS leaders would gear themselves out on multiple jobs before gearing members.

As far as I'm concerned, if I have to farm the pop set and fight the fights then I'm 'entitled' to fair drop rules like everyone else... and so are the other helpers.


Inb4 'you don't have to join the shout'

Lastly, please don't strawman or argue the exception to the rule. But srsly, is it just me? Is it just my server? Is this now the norm of FFXI?

[Rearden]

Don't join those groups?

[Eric]

Seriously, just get a better LS.

[Greatguardian]

Don't join those groups?

This.

People do this because they can get away with it. People will join anyways and allow themselves to be taken advantage of, knowing full well that the deal is total crap from the get-go.

The only real way to stop it is to just not deal in obviously skewed setups. Ye Olde Example: Dynamis Linkshells that don't sell/split currency. Oh, the leader is making over 3 million gil per run while everyone else has a chance to occasionally lot AF if it happens to drop? Yeah that's super fair and equitable. There's a reason reputable and competent players stopped having anything to do with shells like that years ago.

Did shells like that still exist up till the Dynamis changes? I'm sure they did. There will always be people with absolutely no sense of self-worth, or who plain don't know any better, who can be taken advantage of. All that the educated player can do is do what's right for themselves, and make sure they are not taken advantage of. The general public can't really be helped.

[Toggles]

Don't join those groups?

Inb4 'you don't have to join the shout'

... But srsly, is it just me? Is it just my server? Is this now the norm of FFXI?

I don't. Well if I find out after joining I leave which is 'not joining' in spirit. But this is not the point and completely irrelevant to my post. Please don't continue troll internet forum mentality.

Seriously, just get a better LS.

At first I was going to say my LS is just fine. Then I realized it could be trolled that them not being on every second which I'm playing could constitute me needing a better LS so I'll change my response.(p.s. I'm not implying that you'd be a troll)

Anywho, it's not that my LS won't help me and I can't get things done without pug. I haven't _needed_ a pug since my first few weeks back. It's the matter that I'd like to get things done when I'm online during the day and my friends are not/are busy doing other things. Rest assured, I do get these things done at the point that our times line up, usually in the evening. But again, this is a derail to the point of my thread.

...Ye Olde Example: Dynamis Linkshells that don't sell/split currency. Oh, the leader is making over 3 million gil per run while everyone else has a chance to occasionally lot AF if it happens to drop? Yeah that's super fair and equitable. There's a reason reputable and competent players stopped having anything to do with shells like that years ago.
...
There will always be people with absolutely no sense of self-worth, or who plain don't know any better, who can be taken advantage of.

This is exactly what has me on my soap box. Back when I quit, these old 'take advantage of you' LS were strongly on the way out if not already gone. Fast forward to now I'm left wonder wtf happened as it has seemed to reverted a little from what I'm used to 3 years ago which has left me wondering is it my server or is it the norm now days?

[Zagen]

I don't. Well if I find out after joining I leave which is 'not joining' in spirit. But this is not the point and completely irrelevant to my post. Please don't continue troll internet forum mentality.

The thing is that is the solution...

Actually I thought of another one, muster up the guts/strength/whatever you want to call it and lead the run you want X item from. Lock the 1 item and then invite people so they potentially get something out of it of equal value.

[Toggles]

The thing is that is the solution...

Actually I thought of another one, muster up the guts/strength/whatever you want to call it and lead the run you want X item from. Lock the 1 item and then invite people so they potentially get something out of it of equal value.

Hehe, I've long thought about doing that. Kind of like undercutting but applied in a good way to bad shouts.

If I'm still interested in playing after I get my jobs geared up I may just make a LS dedicated to screwing over the 'screw you over' shouts.

I had a LS like that for a brief period back on Fairy called "Call for Help". We'd answer shouts for some poor person that was shouting and couldn't get any help and then go do w/e they needed help with. Unfortunately it takes a certain type of person(who are few and far between) to be willing to be in a LS like that so it eventually fell apart. I'm sure it'd be much easier to do with Abyssea since most stuff is solo/duo/trio-able.

[Shiyo]

Shouts like the ones in the OP usually get torn apart in /shout by other people. It's hilarious watching people lock literally every item and expecting people to come help.

[Greatguardian]

This is exactly what has me on my soap box. Back when I quit, these old 'take advantage of you' LS were strongly on the way out if not already gone. Fast forward to now I'm left wonder wtf happened as it has seemed to reverted a little from what I'm used to 3 years ago which has left me wondering is it my server or is it the norm now days?

These linkshells weren't on the decline because there was a lack of people to take advantage of, though. Doing things with troglodytes who barely had the mental capacity to tie their own shoes just made things a headache back in the day, so people got tired of it and just gave up the scam. Now, when certain basic events (eg, seal farming) can be done practically afk, it's really not that bad to just get an alliance of randoms to kill things. It's not like they can fail even if no one can follow basic instructions.

Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not complaining about a lack of difficulty in Abyssea. I'm just saying that it does lead to people being able to functionally lower their standards without any real consequences. Abyssea will always be relevant as a casual playground, so I doubt this sort of thing will ever really go away. But every serious player will have at least started Voidwatch by the time the 95 update is fleshed out (and definitely by 99 or VW part 3), so it doesn't really affect me.

[Shiyo]

When I shout for people, I basically solo the NM and invite morons to proc and TH for me. Sometimes I get people who can't even proc properly, it's pretty bad. I hate having to ask blus/blm's "Do you have all proc spells?"

Thankfully I pug things like, once in a blue moon.