RDM Balance ...

[ShadowViper]

Again I rather see us have some other role like enfeebling spells that are both unique and useful. Or if we are going to be the job to buff players into demi gods let me do it in a manner that doesn't force me into a stupid cycle. Right now with the lv increases and new abilities SE has a chance to fix RDM and break it out of the old mold of healer/refresher role, if they give us cure 5 the job will be no different than it was 2+ years ago. Having cure 4 is enough to help back up main healers, allow us to heal ourselves regardless of sub when solo'n while preventing us from becoming OP or overtanking another role.

Again I don't want to turn this thread into a Cure 5 discussion if thats all your interested in please feel free to start a new thread thats focused on it. The point of this thread was to suggest ways to balance our jobs versus content/jobs that already exist w/o putting us into roles that truly weren't made for us to be considered as mains.

[Crimson_Slasher]

For me, i see things a bit differently than rdm being an accent to a party, i see rdm as being the wildcard of the party, and would like the balance to reflect that, being able to swap gear and perform roles as the situation demands.

In need of healing? Rdm should be just barely able to do this, another cure IV or V should work in this respect, as well as some sort of status removal, perhaps via a buff that shortens active enfeebles on a party member(s) by 50%.

In the nuking department, as much as id like to see more, i feel we are sufficient, but one or two more past the elemental family could be nice.

As far as enhancing, id like to see some method to effectively, and quickly share our buffs without cycling them into eternity, as well as perhaps seeing a mild but overall "combat enhancer" buff, which raises non atributes by a percentage or fixed value (Say +5% attack/accuracy/defense, evasion/magic evasion, ranged accuracy/attack, magic accuacy/attack/defense, etc.)

As far as enfeebling goes, we need resistances toned down, i feel in a way that we can land the spells on anything, but potency, or duration varies with said resistant mobs, additionally id like to see another DOT type spell, i find myself only able to DOT effectively /blm.

As far as tanking, well, we need hate support, the damage area isnt so much a problem with the right gear/practice. (not that i tank much on rdm, or am looking for a buff here persay, just breaking down the various fields)

As far as physical damage, we suffer from currently hard to obtain haste gear, scarce and insufficently powerful weaponskilling gear, a lack of daggers but a decent list of ws, a lack of sword ws but a good sword selection, few combat oriented shields, and virtually no traits, though these can be covered with the buff i mentioned above.

Overall, i dont want to outdo any professional in their job, but if push comes to shove, and the party can be made more effective switching your dedicated rdm from healing to nuking, or meleeing, or enhancing, or whatever the case be, i would be glad to carry the extra gear.

Id also love to see a party of 6 rdms able to perform as an organized unit, all performing agreed upon tasks to mimic a real party to a degree, having 1-2 actual "healer rdms," a "buffer/nuker/enfeeber/tank rdm," and 3 "DD Rdm" able to fight effectively, even if not at maximum efficienty in an old styled exp party, but thats more of a novelty to want to see, id like to see whms able to do the same in truth.

Thats my thoughts of balance though. Id like proficency, but not overwelming superiority over the other masters in any given field.

[saevel]

A few things people are not taking into account. First being outside of Abyssea MP is still a precious commodity. A WHM is forced to choose between /RDM refresh + convert and /SCH utilities, a WHM will get +3mp/tick from gear assuming they were lucky enough to get a +1mp/tick hairpin. /RDM is 3mp/tick and /SCH is sublimation.

Now RDM main,
Same 3mp/tick from body + chapeau, but my Refresh II is 7mp/tick, this standing outside Abyssea I'm looking at 10mp/tick while breathing. Combine this with a sub 9m convert timer and we're still the kinds of MP restoration. With /SCH or /WHM we get all the -na's and erase and even an aoe cure or two. We have mild CC ability for emergencies, and the gloriously awesome Saboteur Dia III for "kill it now" moments. Only think preventing us from being forced back into WHM-1 is the lack of "Cure V". I've had various LS leaders and event planners make that comment many many times, that if only RDM had Cure V they would put us in the melee PT and wouldn't need to find another WHM.

So yeah Cure V would be a very bad thing for us. Now SCH on the other hand is already a WHM + BLM, their supposed to be masters of both magic types but only one at a time. They should get Cure V under apendum white, just like their getting tier V nukes under apendum black.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Whm emp+2 pants pretty much solves their mp concerns outside combined with either sub and autorefresh gear unless they're spamming cures or something. Cureskin in near capped potency with +2 body/auspice/esuna/enhanced barspells are still Whm only.

Sch shouldn't get Cure V before Rdm. They learn cures at the same rate as Pld.

[saevel]

It's simple Neisan, do you want to get on RDM so that you can play WHM-1?

If yes, then Cure V fits in with your play style. If no then Cure V would destroy your play style. Any other response is just someone tap dancing.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Anything above 4 would be nice tbh, they can make a new spell and call it wtf they want for all I care, I simply don't believe cure V or a new spell above 4 without solace is so wtfbroken that SE can't have more than 1 job capable of actually healing better than other mages subbing whm based on cure tiers available (and that current job is... BLU, who typically isn't called on for main healing, and... still won't replace our current condition of their being only one healer).

[saevel]

Its not about being "omgwtf broken", RDM was NEVER that. It's about being "just good enough" which we were. Why did players chose RDM to be a main healer? WHM has so many tools and much better capability. It was because RDM was just barely able to cure enough to get a victory, while being more plentiful and not requiring another RDM for MP.

This game has always been about squeaking by with the bare minimum for a victory, they go as light as possible in the support department and as heavy as possible in the offensive department. That mentality didn't go away with Abyssea, it just made them require a few more jobs who normally wouldn't be invites (BLM mostly). There is new content coming up, and considering the player base doesn't' change, the first thing their gonna try to find out is the absolutely minimum required support base to get a victory. A RDM capable of casting "Cure V" is just a gimp WHM, and that is EXACTLY how the non-RDM's will see it, or haven't you missed all the MeleeRDM hate going on? It'll just start another round of "RDM is only good for healing" and we'll be pigeonholed just like we were back in 2004.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I'd rather be good for something than as it stands which is not very good for most situations in a party. I'm willing to wait on these promised adjustments but after recent adjustments I'm remaining pessimistic.

I still don't see how having more than 1 job being viable for curing is somehow a bad thing. Monopoly is a bad thing, options are good. What I want is a situation where it is an option, and neither job has a monopoly.

[saevel]

Ohh to the contrary, I never said to only have one job. SCH should definitely get Cure V under app.white, it fits their motif. RDM should be getting the rest of the Regen's and possible a super HoT.

Ultimately giving RDM "Cure V" is a very short sighted, all it does is turn

Haste
Refresh
Cure IV

into

Haste
Refresh
Cure V

Blizz~~ (Leader: What are you DOING, stop nuking, that's MP you can use for more Cure V, and my haste's been down for 5s put it back up NOW).
Nothing actually changes, RDM plays the same as in 2004. This is something SE is attempting to change right now.

[Shiyo]

By attempting to change you mean making the job completely useless, worthless, unwanted, and serve no point?

I guess it'll be cool, instead of curing, hasting, and refreshing(you forgot to mention crowd controlling, debuffing, nuking PROPERLY etc, but I guess that's too complex or something), we'll be on another job doing other things!