[dev1024] - Pining Nocturne

[Zhronne]

I've been asking for a new debuff for BRD for ages, so I'm really happy about Pining Nocture. About the not stacking with Addle... I dunno, it might make sense. A fully well-geared RDM using that JA enhancing the next debuff can bring Addle to really high levels, perhaps too high. Having this stack with Pining Nocture might be a bit too overpowered...
I hope Pining Nocturne will be an element different from Fire, that way you'll be able to put it on NMs that are immune to fire (and hence to Addle).

Only thing that really bothers me atm is the fact that you can't overwrite Pining Nocturne with another Pining Nocturne, i.e. making us unable to refresh it before it expires. Really hope they have changed that in the patch that will go live tonight, or that they will change it in the future.

[Reain]

I've been asking for a new debuff for BRD for ages, so I'm really happy about Pining Nocture. About the not stacking with Addle... I dunno, it might make sense. A fully well-geared RDM using that JA enhancing the next debuff can bring Addle to really high levels, perhaps too high. Having this stack with Pining Nocture might be a bit too overpowered...
I hope Pining Nocturne will be an element different from Fire, that way you'll be able to put it on NMs that are immune to fire (and hence to Addle).

Only thing that really bothers me atm is the fact that you can't overwrite Pining Nocturne with another Pining Nocturne, i.e. making us unable to refresh it before it expires. Really hope they have changed that in the patch that will go live tonight, or that they will change it in the future.

It is fire based, but I was able to stick it 2/2 on Tiamat on the test server. Perhaps the devs didn't update Tiamat to make it immune to nocturne effects yet though. It does seem very accurate. I've stuck it 1/1 on Cerberus, Jormungand and Khimaira also. It didn't stick on turtles.

I've tried testing the potency of Nocturne and it seems to increase spellcasting time by 15%. I'm not too confident in that number though. It's difficult to measure spellcasting time accurately, so take that number with skepticism. I agree that Nocturne should stack with Addle, and it doesn't seem like it would be overpowered.

It bothers me too about not overwriting itself. It's nice that skill affects the duration for stacking with Marcato, but not being able to overwrite Nocturne with a stronger one when you use SV/Marcato seems to be a limitation.

[Cahlum]

SE need to address this as it really does make no sense. Camate where are you!

[Camate]

Camate where are you!

I'm here, I'm here! Sorry it took a bit to get a response.

We received word back from the development team in regards to your question about why Pining Nocturne will not stack with other magic spells.

There have been a lot comments asking why it does not stack when Elegy and Slow, Carol and bar-spells, and Requiem and other DoT spells all stack. However, there are no set rules about what spells and song effects can and cannot be applied at the same time. Each spell and song is decided on a case-by-case basis along with their effects.

For example, the reasoning behind being able to stack Elegy and Slow is that the monster will still be able to use their special abilities so it’s forgivable.

On the other hand, with Nocturne and Addle, since the enemies casting time could be drastically increased, it would become possible to greatly exploit magic-focused enemies in battle.

While it’s fine to have somewhat of an advantage, however, while someone is casting it is not possible to perform any other actions, so prolonging this state is equivalent to making the enemy completely powerless which is why we decided to make the rule that the two spells cannot be stacked.

[Insaniac]

This is kind of silly and severely limits it's usefulness. Maybe the devs would consider letting the spells stack but not at full potency? Have the 2nd spell cast only add an additional 10-15% casting time? Maybe put a cap of 50% on addle so you couldn't go past the maximum value of a sabo addle from RDM? There has to be a better solution than not stacking at all.

[Rexen]

That makes little to no sense to me. If it's too overpowered to have the song and spell stack why even bother giving it to Bard in the first place? You will almost always have a White Mage or Red Mage as a healer now, so I don't see any logic in it at all.

[Ophannus]

Make RDM more useless please.

[Creelo]

Can we just fire the dev. team and have people that actually play and understand this game develop it?

Seriously, when's the last time you've fought a monster worth a damn that exclusively casted spells?

Most mobs generally fire off their spells (Even the -aga IVs, etc.) fairly quickly nowadays. Would it truly be that overpowered if mobs had to take an extra .5-2.5 seconds (dependent on spell) to cast their spells?

Why couldnt we test something like this out or even just play with it, the actual players? Why can't the dev. team give us actual numbers too? Instead of foggy terms like "Drastically increased casting time," how about we see something like "The combined effects of Pining Nocturne and Addle would amount to a X% increase in casting time" for once? How did the dev. team come to this conclusion that Pining Nocturne/Addle would absolutely, positively be overpowered if they stacked? I'll bet they tested it on some poor,immobile worms or something...


And how is Slow and Elegy stacking together forgivable since the mob can still use TP moves? I'm 100% sure that Addle/Nocturne would never, could never ever compare to a stacked Elegy/Slow II. Even if a mob takes just 2 seconds in between their attack rounds, Carnage Elegy alone would add another full second to their attack round (+50%). Over time, this is going to amount to way more than Addle/Nocturne affecting spells that mobs will only occasionally cast (as opposed to constantly being under their standard attack round). Not to mention, it's not like the mob casting the spell isn't going to be gaining TP from being attacked by players (or if they have Auto Regain). So what's really the big deal? I mean, I understand a mob can't use TP moves while casting spells, but really dev. team, really?? I should probably shut my trap because soon Elegy and Slow won't stack anymore, but I'll end on this.

The Dev. Team doesn't care about Bard people.

Case in point: Pining Nocturne (and Gjallarhorn... it's STILL a space saver at lvl 95!?!?!)

[Zhronne]

I'm here, I'm here! Sorry it took a bit to get a response.

We received word back from the development team in regards to your question about why Pining Nocturne will not stack with other magic spells.

There have been a lot comments asking why it does not stack when Elegy and Slow, Carol and bar-spells, and Requiem and other DoT spells all stack. However, there are no set rules about what spells and song effects can and cannot be applied at the same time. Each spell and song is decided on a case-by-case basis along with their effects.

For example, the reasoning behind being able to stack Elegy and Slow is that the monster will still be able to use their special abilities so it’s forgivable.

On the other hand, with Nocturne and Addle, since the enemies casting time could be drastically increased, it would become possible to greatly exploit magic-focused enemies in battle.

While it’s fine to have somewhat of an advantage, however, while someone is casting it is not possible to perform any other actions, so prolonging this state is equivalent to making the enemy completely powerless which is why we decided to make the rule that the two spells cannot be stacked.

I'm fine with Pining Nocturne not stacking, I don't see why people have been asking for that so much.
It's pretty clear that if you allow to stack that with a Saboteur-enhanced Addle, you need to reduce the effectivity of both spells for the very same reasons Camate exposed.

There are two things that Pining Nocturne still needs though, a minor and a major.
Major: Currently Pining Nocturne doesn't overwrite itself. I think this is an unique situation within the Bard Job and should be resolved. It makes it particularly annoying to try to refresh the spell on mobs and creates several other issues when used in conjunction with other Bard Job Abilities like Marcato, Soul Voice and Troubadour.
Minor: Atm Pining Nocturne is just an "option" to use when you have no Red Mage, even though Pining Nocturne is weaker than Addle, but that's fine. What developers could and should change in my opinion is the elemental correlation of Pining Nocturne. Currently it's alligned with Fire, same as Addle, meaning that if a target is immune to fire spells, we won't be able to affect it with either Pining Nocturne or Addle. It would add much depth to the game instead if Nocturne was another element, that way on mobs where Red Mages can't stick their Addle, Bards could stick their Nocturne

(not taking into account the fact that White Mages recently got access to Addle too, since they don't have saboteur, nor the gear/traits/skills RDMs do. The fact that WHMs have it as well doesn't change the reasoning behind what I'm trying to say)

[Granny]

If the effects are so over powered then why did they give a low lvl spell that is way stronger than addle and the brd song called silence?

Oh wait, they decided to just make silence, bind, and gravity obsolete, and everything be immune. It's nice as a reward for getting our jobs leveled high to get weaker versions of spells we already have, isnt it everyone?!!!!