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  1. #1
    Player Malamasala's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    When visions clash

    So, considering SE did a 180 on NIN and went from "damage support puller" to "tank", is it possible other jobs could go through this change in vision?

    Masters of ninjutsu who can handle both offense and defense, adjusting to the tides of battle at a moment's notice.

    We'd like to see ninjas succeed at taking the heat off other party members by drawing enemies' attention and adroitly evading their attacks or slinking around in the shadows to strike with physical attacks and elemental ninjutsu while the target is otherwise occupied.
    The obvious follow up topic is of course melee SMN. It has a very strong support (roughly the same as melee RDM), and it has just like NIN evolved from players observing what the job is capable of.

    But lets take a quick history lesson. SMNs have for a long time been used as healers, since they were pretty lackluster for anything else. SE noticed this, and has kept treating SMN as a healing job with giving us access to even more cure potency than a WHM.

    If you ask me, it is about time they did a re-check on the job status. SMN is no longer used as healers, and have very little interest in cure potency armors or other general mage armors. Empyrean armor made it look like they were heading for the right direction, not that anyone expected cure potency on those armors. But since Abyssea, I've seen a rather lacking amount of armor selection for SMN, as per usual. There is that "ifrit only ring" which is nice but again very situational. There is also a belt, which is nice. But apart from that I haven't spotted any "improves SMN" armors since Empyrean armor. The whole armor set for Voidwatch is just lackluster.

    Now, assuming we could get SE to re-evaluate our job again, it would be nice if this stretched out to armors as well.

    Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies

    We intend to make it easier for avatars to wreak havoc upon enemies, but also emphasize how vital the act of managing the source of their magical powers is to summoners.
    As can be seen, SE has caught on to the "Use main job instead of heal" except they are still roughly 3 years behind. They think our current way of playing is using avatars from the back while supporting with cures. This is simply not true. A fair amount of us have moved up our aid to the front line. (Only the most daring ones, the others are so far too afraid of the front lines).

    Since SE could notice the strong support for NIN tanks, I hope SE can take note of the need for more hybrid melee gear for SMN. I saw that the upcoming update would have a belt or cape or something with 5% haste and 5% pet haste. Good job! But we need much more along these lines, and particularly for SMN (which you for some reason forget on all the armors you give to PUP/BST)



    Together we can expand on Summoner to be envision as a support mage that either supports safely from the back, or engages the enemy to give another form of support. Just how NIN was allowed to grow into both a tank and a sneaky assassin.

    A short example of minor possible adjustments:

    Traits:
    - Accuracy Bonus I (level 50?)
    - Subtle blow up to tier IV
    - Avatars subtle blow to tier IV as well

    Weaponskills:
    - All staff weapon skills

    Abilities:
    - An ability that allows you to transfer TP from avatar to SMN (level 60?)
    - An ability that consumes a spirit to enhance your elemental resistance and give you an en-spell effect (level 20?)

    Armors:
    More hybrids like:
    - 5% haste, 5% pet haste, Store TP+10
    - -3 perpetuation, pet accuracy, pet Double Attack
    - +MP, +STR, TP bonus, Summoning magic +5
    And similar mixes.



    If Dragoon could convince SE to make their 2 hour into a 20 min Job Ability "Because that is how we want to play" and NIN could claim tank roles "Because that is how we want to play", surely us SMNs can advance into the melee territory "Because that is how we want to play" as well.

    (Note, not everyone wants to tank on NIN and not everyone wants to melee on SMN. Though I think for some odd reason everyone on DRG wants a wyvern. Go figure)

    I am simply inspired by the progress NINs have made over the years, and wish to attempt getting the same thing through for SMN. Luckily 75% of the issues can be solved by armor selection being more similar to BST and PUP than WHM and BLM.


    As a summary:

    Consider that there are melee SMNs and backline SMNs, just how there are tank NINs and sneaky NINs. Expand the job vision to accomdate for how people play the job.

    Start working with putting SMN on armors that BST and PUP have access to. Later construct hybrid armors with SMN stats and BST/PUP stats.

    It is very little work (setting SMN on armors is just tagging for example), and the boost to the job will be significant for those of us who love testing our limits.



    PS. Even if people were to disagree, I'd be happy if SE just plain stopped adding more WHM and BLM armors to SMN. Anything else than that will be fine.
    (0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    We are currently looking into enhancing elemental spirits.
    Miracles do happen!

  2. #2
    Player
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    Aug 2011
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    Wouldn't it be more productive for the development bros to just re-evaluate exactly how long 45 seconds can be and play towards Summoner's strengths, rather than striving to realize your vision?
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player Soranika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    452
    Character
    Soranika
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 95
    I'd rather see multiple jobs be able to have different builds to approach a situation. Don't have to compete with another job, but at least be usable in that field. Job discrimination is at an all time high and people will quickly deny you if you don't play the way they think you should at your job. Some arguments aren't without merit though, like lack of equipment, job abilities, and subjob limitations for certain main jobs that people would like to play out side the box. Then there are those, like NIN, that are played completely different from the way they were intended to.

    I can't help but wonder what FFXI balance would be like if PVP was actually focused on. I wont' dare compare to other MMOs but I do miss when people liked diversity because it was actually welcome in a PVP setting. It's all PVM on FFXI mostly, so one begins to wonder why people are so anal about how to play it. I find it sad that as a main SMN I rarely play it now cause people think the job is mostly useless, especially my LS. I hate playing WHM but apparently SCH and DNC are "useless" too for the things I want to do. What's the point of playing the game if you can't play the way you'd like without being ostracized from the community at large?
    (1)
    Main Job: SMN95 <Hvergelmir 85 obtained 9/10/11>
    Side Jobs: WHM95 DNC95
    Gimp Jobs: SCH95 NIN95
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimikryo View Post
    If waiting 15 minutes is such an issue to you, I hope you never get stuck in public transport or in an elevator. You probably will go insane.

  4. #4
    Player Malamasala's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    Wouldn't it be more productive for the development bros to just re-evaluate exactly how long 45 seconds can be and play towards Summoner's strengths, rather than striving to realize your vision?
    I believe 3 seconds of adding "SMN" to an armor that already has BST and PUP on would not count as unproductive.

    But i agree that they could also evaluate how many actions other jobs do in 45 seconds and how many SMN does so they can get the new BP delay down ability balanced. It is slightly off topic, but I always thought it was silly that I had pacts that did 100 damage and debuffed, and due to 100 damage it had to have 50 seconds longer recast than a RDM or WHM debuff spells, or even compared to BLUs who can just spam head butt while ramuh's shock strike requires near a minute recast.
    (0)

    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    We are currently looking into enhancing elemental spirits.
    Miracles do happen!

  5. #5
    Player scaevola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    726
    Character
    Scaevola
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    If it worked like that, DRG would be able to wear Haubergeon.
    (1)
    tandava crackows + chocobo jig + animated flourish = prouesse ring

  6. #6
    Player Aver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    155
    Character
    Sayn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 95
    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    If it worked like that, DRG would be able to wear Haubergeon.
    It's always bugged me that they couldn't, when their AF is plate, lol.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Deadvinta's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Adoulin
    Posts
    154
    Because the Empyrean Summoner looks like a tribal villager, I say we give them access to spears.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Aver's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
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    155
    Character
    Sayn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 95
    It's always looked like pajamas to me, therefore teddy bears.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Leonlionheart's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Jeuno
    Posts
    1,769
    Character
    Leonlionheart
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 95
    If this is going to be done, do it through Lv.99 merits.

    Jobs need a higher level of customization.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player svengalis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    854
    Character
    Jakarai
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    I am not sure ninja is a tank as you make it out to be. From my experience in abyssea ninja is the third best DD only out classed by war and maybe blm.
    (0)

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