Samurai Archers

[Babekeke]

Can SAM get some new arrows?

It's kind of ridiculous that the best arrows we get are:

Antlion Arrow lvl 80
DMG: 41 Delay: 90 Ranged Attack +5

and then RNG only gets:

Ruszor Arrow lvl 89
DMG: 46 Delay: 90

AND

Gargouille Arrow lvl 97
DMG: 51 Delay: 90 Ranged Accuracy +5

I know archery isn't our best skill, but no new arrows for 19 lvls when RNG got 2 kinda sux

Welcome to THF's world. We got Last Stand*, but no decent xbows, bolts, guns or bullets >.>

[Delvish]

Welcome to THF's world. We got Exenterator, but no decent xbows, bolts, guns or bullets >.>

Last Stand*

[Hyden]

Welcome to THF's world. We got Last Stand*, but no decent xbows, bolts, guns or bullets >.>

That's a good point too, but THF doesn't get Annihiltor like SAM gets Yoichi either :/

[Delvish]

So I got a Yoichinoyumi finally. Spent the subsequent 48 hours bringing that puppy up to 95 (As SAM, the trials are MUCH easier). Now that I'm playing around with a 95 Relic Weapon, I'm noticing something about my damage. It hasn't budged.

My two primary GKs are the 100%TP bonus and the OA2-4 GK. 100%TP bonus has a damage rating of 105 and frequently drops 2.5Kish (depending on scenario, more for VW/Abyssea naturally) Tachi: Shoha's. The OA2-4 GK conversely has half that damage at 51 and, while super frequent, only reaches 1K average (see above) Shoha. What does SAM's new staple WS have to do with SAM/RNG style fighting? The simple fact that my 95 Relic Weapon is doing 1K average Namas/Apex Arrows. Sound familiar? It is doing the same damage as my toothpick GK, while it is at 118DMG with Antlion Arrows (another sore spot) at 41DMG. I think a little reworking of archery damage is in order.

I believe I recall someone saying TP bonus from the GK does affect archery WS too, but the Namas and Apex WS have the same TP modifier across the board so 100% and 300% don't make a difference beyond Apex's DEF bypass.

On the above note with arrows, SAMs highest arrow is the Antlion Arrow, which comes in 10 damage below the highest available one. I would very much like a better arrow please.

[SpankWustler]

My two primary GKs are the 100%TP bonus and the OA2-4 GK. 100%TP bonus has a damage rating of 105 and frequently drops 2.5Kish (depending on scenario, more for VW/Abyssea naturally) Tachi: Shoha's. The OA2-4 GK conversely has half that damage at 51 and, while super frequent, only reaches 1K average (see above) Shoha. What does SAM's new staple WS have to do with SAM/RNG style fighting? The simple fact that my 95 Relic Weapon is doing 1K average Namas/Apex Arrows. Sound familiar? It is doing the same damage as my toothpick GK, while it is at 118DMG with Antlion Arrows (another sore spot) at 41DMG. I think a little reworking of archery damage is in order.

To get really solid Namas Arrow performance, you need a lot of attack buffs. A lot of a lot of attack buffs. Ranged attacks and weapon-skills have a much higher attack cap than even two-handed melee attacks and weapon-skills.

Specifically, Namas Arrows starts becoming a valid option somewhere around or after the same point that you stop seeing any improvement from attack buffs on Great Katana weapon-skills due to hitting the attack cap. Probably some point after, compared to Tachi: Shoha with its attack boost.

Edit:

I want to be more specific and less of a dick, because I'm no longer high on painkillers or clutching my neck and howling like a badger with its balls tied to a hot air balloon:

The Attack/Defense ratio for ranged weapons caps at 3.0 instead of the 2.25 for two-handed weapons. As the monster's level grows and grows and level correction grows and grows, the "final" capped result is pushed closer to 2.0 VS 1.25 and that .75 difference becomes more pronounced. Ranged attack is also pushed more slowly into the sadness zone, by only -.025 per level difference instead of -.05 per level difference. Between these two things, ranged attacks gain a lot of ground on high level monsters.

Uncapped attack is pushed down similarly, it's not just the cap that changes, but showing that would make my head hurt. I think uncapped attack is relevant enough to note, however. It's entirely possible that a Samurai with a bow has uncapped Ranged Attack in almost any situation, though, between lower skill and worse equipment selection and being within melee range rather than at ideal range. That's where all the attack buffs, and I mean very nearly "all possible attack buffs" when I say that, come in.

The end result is that when you have half a dozen attack buffs and almost that many defense down effects in play while facing Captain AoEpants McAoEstein from Level 120, Namas Arrow rapidly recovers ground and then ends up ahead.

Sorry that I didn't dig this deep before, as it would have made the post make a bit more sense. This particular use could be argued to be ridiculously situational, maybe even useless to someone who keeps a healthy distance from Legion. Then again, I'd be shocked if anyone who made a Relic Bow explicitly for Samurai wasn't expecting a situational weapon.

Also, I hate hot air balloons.

[Demon6324236]

Correct me if I am wrong but SAM/WAR is better than SAM/RNG with Yochi isn't it?

[SpankWustler]

Correct me if I am wrong but SAM/WAR is better than SAM/RNG with Yochi isn't it?

I can't speak for all niche situations when someone might want to use a bow on Samurai and won't pretend to, but in the situation that I described, most definitely.

Berserk is a ridiculously powerful attack buff and ranged stuff is almost always hungry for attack buffs. Berserk would be more-or-less required for Namas Arrow to perform well enough to pull ahead by a noticeable margin, and using Tachi:Shoha when Berserk was down would be something to seriously consider.

[Demon6324236]

What does SAM's new staple WS have to do with SAM/RNG style fighting?

I asked cause this line seems to imply he has been using SAM/RNG, which could also be part of why the difference seems small or non-existent.

[Delvish]

I asked cause this line seems to imply he has been using SAM/RNG, which could also be part of why the difference seems small or non-existent.

Actually I put in the /rng style fighting to imply the use of a bow instead of purely GK. I do use /war in most situations except VW when an actual RNG is not present.

Also, thanks for the insight on attack boosts. I'll have to play around with different gear sets to get the most.

[hiko]

some nice info about end game as yoichi sam in legion :
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108...=1#post5604927

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108...=1#post5611484