SE, Temper Activation Rate

[FrankReynolds]

I'm not sure you're fulling grasping the "positive feedback" outlook for forums. I'm not quite sure Dev's want to see "Waste of dev's time." over and over. That really isn't "positive feedback". Everyone has different play styles and many people are very nostalgic and want RDM to have it's melee aspects enhanced the way it was supposed to be when it originally all began. Yes RDM's can buff and get quite an assortment of buff type spells, but RDM is also a great enfeebler(or used to be top noch). Maybe it would be nice if Dev's took another look at RDM's buff aspects especially if you wana go by the Manifesto description. But constantly throwing around "Waste of Dev's time." or some other remark that has no positive outlook at all, is a waste of time in general for us all. All those Enfeebling RDM's want that to be re-worked, all those healing RDM's want Cure V(Which SE did take away from RDM, but I digress.). And many Melee RDM's got a lil happy boost because of this update. Taking away something SE already wants to implement in the game isn't going to further your cause to get what you want out of this job realized by them. So stop wasting everyone's time with all this negative feedback, and just give some positive feedback once in awhile and maybe then your voice will be heard.

I can't think of a better way for them to stop seeing "waste of devs time" than for us to tell them when they are wasting their time so that they don't keep doing it. It's like not telling someone when their zipper is down. Sure they feel a little angry or embarrassed, but its better than walking around all day not knowing. FYI there are tons of "positive feedback" posts in other portions of the forums. This unfortunately is one of the Items that didn't merit positive feedback.

You could try the BLU, WAR or MNK forums? They seem pretty happy about things in general.

[Supersun]

Not to mention there's some optimization of our spells they can do if necessary.

I mean if they are really hurting for space would it be that broken to combine all of our elemental and status barspells into two spells? One a magic evasion spell and the other a status effect evasion spell. I mean between Whm and Rdm that would free up like 20 spells.

I can't think of a better way for them to stop seeing "waste of devs time" than for us to tell them when they are wasting their time so that they don't keep doing it. It's like not telling someone when their zipper is down. Sure they feel a little angry or embarrassed, but its better than walking around all day not knowing. FYI there are tons of "positive feedback" posts in other portions of the forums. This unfortunately is one of the Items that didn't merit positive feedback.

You could try the BLU, WAR or MNK forums? They seem pretty happy about things in general.

Maybe it'd be better to give suggestions on what to work on instead?

Seriously, search these threads for posts about enfeebling. There aren't many and most of them are made by the same people who ask for melee buffs as well with a handful of others such as Karbuncle and Great Guardian ect....

[Yamimarik44]

I can't think of a better way for them to stop seeing "waste of devs time" than for us to tell them when they are wasting their time so that they don't keep doing it. It's like not telling someone when their zipper is down. Sure they feel a little angry or embarrassed, but its better than walking around all day not knowing. FYI there are tons of "positive feedback" posts in other portions of the forums. This unfortunately is one of the Items that didn't merit positive feedback. You could try the BLU, WAR or MNK forums? They seem pretty happy about things in general.

Okay, but what does the community and you yourself gain from being so negative all the time? Nothing but frustration among everyone in the community and people always harping on everyone if everyone's way of thinking isn't aligned with their own. You do nothing good for the community if you're always going to slander idea's and act so negatively towards others and their own comments. I have seen the other threads on this forum, but why can't the RDM thread's just be as positive as others? Is it really that difficult to come up with positive suggestions, feedback and comments for RDM? Grow up, stop acting like the world is only suited to your way of thinking. Just stop the whining and complaining and say something more constructive as a whole for the community.

As far as suggesting ideas for RDM maybe SE should have another look into RDM's enfeebling, a nice boost to melee is always welcomed to those in the community who enjoy this play style. From what I've ready majority of players, including myself, doesn't really want to see anymore buffs to cycle through. On my first character before the lvl increase I remember how it was for RDM's at 75. I was one of those RDM's I did what was asked of me and always kept everyone happy on buffs and enfeebles. Doesn't mean it wasn't a hassle though. Anything else I'm coming up empty on further idea's tired and hungry lol.

[Septimus]

If there is a limit then:

1. How do BLU cope, they get the most spells.
2. If BLU spells count in the total with White/Black/Dark magic then remove the lesser more rubbish BLU spells.

That said I find it unlikely there is no way to increase the total whether it be by just adding another Magic command area like they've been doing with inventory for this long.

I could simply say "PS2 Limitations", but I can go into more detail since I have worked with the spell list a lot doing wiki-type stuff.

Essentially it works like this, all spells are on one giant list. The order used to be White Magic, Black Magic, Summoning, Ninjustu, Songs, and Blue Magic. They have had to get more creative when adding in new spells, this is why tier II en-spells are after summoning magic when you sort your spells. When you sort your magic to the automatic setting, most spells go according to their ID numbers in the spell data file. (Cure is 1, Fire is 144, Fire Spirit is 288, Monomi: Ichi is 318, Foe Requiem is 368, Venom Shell is 513. Blue magic is different, it first sorts it according to type, then level, then ID. Except for the spells added after the initial spells which are just by ID.)

Right now there are 767 entries in the spell data files, 631 of them are named spells in the data files, approximately 587 (probably a few more than that) of which we can or will be able to cast by level 99. There is a lot of waste that can be cut, I made a list on the BGForums of some of them like: Dia IV, Dia V, Banish V, Diaga III, Diaga IV, Diaga V, Banishga IV, Banishga V, Poison III, Poison IV, Poison V, Poisonga III, Poisonga IV, Poisonga V, Virus, Curse, Tractor II, Moogle Rhapsody, Jester's Operetta, and Protected Aria. There is also a lot of Blue Magic entries which are unused. But regardless of that, if the official word is that we are running out of spells (could someone find a link to the actual community team post for that), the 767 entries may be more than the system can handle. It may not be an issue of memory in the spell list, there may be some other limiting factor that wouldn't allow for a second magic command. (Were such a thing possible, would they take the time to program it?) Or there is room for more spells, they just said that they are running out of spells as a way to say "Shut up, you're getting what you're getting".

[Alhanelem]

Waste of dev time, RDM is not a melee job :/.

Comments like this are not helpful. There are times, especially soloing (something that RDMs do a lot) when it is beneficial. In a group fighting NMs, no, of course you're not going to do it. However, that doesn't mean that RDM's sword capability, which was originally designed as part of the job, can't be enhanced for any reason.

[saevel]

Based on all the feedback we have received on the forum and the test server, we will be making it so Temper’s activation rate increases with higher enhancing magic skill. (Of course there will be a cap)

Victory, The system works.
RDM Melee 1
RDM Hater 0

Now onto the things I missed.

About the whole Haste / DW / DA thing, gonna correct some misinformation.

First DA experienced a diminishing returns, meaning the most you use the less each individual increment is worth. You use the formula (Increased Attacks / Original Attacks) to determine it. Going from 0~5% DA is exactly +5% (105/100), going from 120 to 125 DA is 4.1% increase (125/120). This is why you focus on DA after things like Haste / DW / Accuracy are taken care of, and also much be balanced with Attack.

Now Haste, Haste is increasing returns, as the most you have the more valuable each increment is worth. This is because Haste is used a denominator with the amount of haste present being subtracted from base 100. The formula (100/(100-Haste) is typically used. Going from 0 to 5% haste is a 5.2% increase (100/95). 20% Haste is a 25% increase (100/80), and 25% haste is a 33.3% increase. Going from 20% haste to 25% haste is a 6.4% increase (133/125). 50% Haste is a 100% increase in attack speed (100/50), 55% haste is a 122% increase in attack speed (100/45), thus going from 50 to 55% haste gives and 11% increase in attack speed (222/200). As you can see the most haste you have the more powerful each additional unit is.

DW / MA function the exact same as haste, going from 20DW to 25DW is a 6.4% increase (1.33/1.25) in attack speed. Going from 25 to 30 is a 6.7% increase (1.42/1.33). DW / MA also lowers your delay which while lowering your TP per hit, it actually increased your TP gain rate over time. The TP Formula is based for delay's over 400 and under 240 with it being really biased under 200. Your melee DPS will go up the same with both haste and DW / MA. Your TP gain rate also goes up on both, but goes up faster with Haste vs DW / MA.

The only reason 2H weapons are so sensitive to delay reduction is their relying on hitting exactly 100TP to WS faster. 110 PT is functionally identical to 100 TP, thus if they can shave a hit off by going from 110 at 6 to 100 at 5 then they would of increased their WS rate by 20% (6/5) even if it would require them to use as slightly higher delay weapon (480/450). The increase in delay and thus the lowering of attack speed is offset by a much larger increase in WS rate. For DW builds this isn't as important as going from 20 hits to 100 (5tp/hit) to 18 hits to 100 (5.6tp/hit) would only increase WS rate by 11% (20/18), and while significant it's not enough to justify lowering your melee DPS to begin with.

[Duelle]

Thanks for all your feedback on Temper.

Based on all the feedback we have received on the forum and the test server, we will be making it so Temper’s activation rate increases with higher enhancing magic skill. (Of course there will be a cap)

In regards to the effect, when considering that the double attack can be stacked with other things besides just enhancing magic skill, such as equipment, etc., and can also be used with en-spells, we set it accordingly.

Hurray~~~. You certainly put my translation to shame, Camate. Any word or even a hint of what that cap may be? >.>;

[Hashmalum]

There is a lot of waste that can be cut, I made a list on the BGForums of some of them like: Dia IV, Dia V, Banish V, Diaga III, Diaga IV, Diaga V, Banishga IV, Banishga V, Poison III, Poison IV, Poison V, Poisonga III, Poisonga IV, Poisonga V, Virus, Curse, Tractor II, Moogle Rhapsody, Jester's Operetta, and Protected Aria. There is also a lot of Blue Magic entries which are unused.

Virus and Curse actually get cast by a handful of NMs, and Virus is actually something that RDM should be getting as an enfeeble. But yeah we don't need five tiers of Poison if only the first two ever get cast by anything.

[saevel]

Dia IV, Dia V

I want these, like now.

Banish V, Banishga IV, Banishga V

WHM should be getting Banish IV / V, Banishga III / IV, else just give them Banishja. Their WHM's and its their only line of damage attacks.

[Drivont]

No... Really no.

Haste receives exponential returns, due to how it effects attack delay.

Dual Wield receives decreasing returns because it reduces TP per hit gain and contributes to the overall 'delay reduction' cap. Making it a soft competitor to haste.

Double Attack is a flat rate of return. 5% double attack means 5% of your attacks that strike normally will attack twice instead. This works globally across the board.

You cannot lump these together, at all.



Correct, it is a Hybrid job. {Please check it.}

If you wish to focus entirely on the mage aspects of the job, you are free to do so. But I do not agree in harping the Developers for giving attention to the aspects of a job class long neglected in the development cycle. High end-game play is not the sole content of the game nor should it be regarded as such.

Additionally, what is this 'invite' you speak of? Most events that occur are done within groupings of friends or associates. In which case Meleeing is an option depending on the acceptability of your peers in relation to the difficulty of the event.

You also assume the development team isn't multitasking other developments at well, to which I say you're both incorrect and impatient. I'd rather them work on both aspects of the job with equal care and consideration.

Temper was so far, done poorly, would you like them to be screwing up the support aspects like that as well? If nothing else, consider these buffs as training for what they should be doing with our support role.

In the meanwhile, you may stow away your absolutist ideal. We're still not sure how the entirety of the changes coming down the pipeline will effect RDM and job/endgame dynamics as whole.

I heart you!