[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[cidbahamut]

I'm simply trying to steer the thread into a direction that is not crying over us not getting another spell to cycle under the delusion that it'll make our job "wanted" and "useful",

Wait wait wait wait. Are you saying that a spell that increases double-attack that can be cast on other players would not be useful?

[Greatguardian]

Little late to the response but greatguardian, im going to be frank, a post about the m.acc of staffs and wether they are needed or not does NOT translate "to why do we use staffs?!"

That was an irrelevent response to the question i asked, its the same reason some rng (i do at times) use fire staff, or smn use staffs, they still have uses, but i will tell you now, a ranger doesnt use a fire staff for fire magic accuracy, and under most situations, even summoners dont use them for magic accuracy. So try to not go off on a totally unrelated tangent from asking if we actually (Generally) need the magic accuracy (i did not mention nuking or other bonuses they represent) to perform as rdm (which as many claim we are an enfeebler) enfeebling.

I'm not claiming Red Mage is an enfeeble-only job. That is stupid. Likewise, I was also responding to the people who were claiming that they may as well use swords because Magic Accuracy is unncessary from staves. I am not going to pigeonhole myself into looking at a single aspect of a certain line of staves while ignoring every other benefit the weapon class grants, just so you and/or others can turn around and say "Well ha! Staves are useless then! Sword or bust!"

It's flawed logic at its finest. Does Red Mage always need the Magic Accuracy component of, frankly, out-dated Staves? No. Does Red Mage receive multiple, potent benefits from non-swords in their weapon slot? Yes. Is equipping a sword and keeping it equipped to maintain TP a huge reduction in Red Mage's versatility and potency as a spellcaster? Yes. There is a massive opportunity cost when TP'ing in swords, whether RdMelee like it or not.

[Malacite]

Accuracy down? You mean blind?

One person said earlier that they should change RDM's Group 2's to simply enhancing the potency of those spells and giving RDM those spells as scrolls instead - I would love this, but unfortunately that's not terribly likely to happen unless SE were to check every player to see who's merited which spells and mail them a scroll to their D box lol.


And yes, there's no guarantee that Temper is 100% indicative of SE's manifesto, but it's not exactly a good start either. They talk about making RDM a master of enhancing magic, and the 1st thing we see is a self-only buff? With only 1 more level cap increase to go, it does not instill much confidence in me - especially after the years of crap I have seen out of the old devs.

[Greatguardian]

Wait, you think the Devs care if we already have a spell or not? If they remove it from the merit list and make it a scroll, we'll all have to buy it regardless. It wouldn't be the first time Mages have lost spells that they had already paid for and learned. Life's not fair, broheim.

[SpankWustler]

Duelle, I understand that you're trying to make points by comparing stuff in FFXI to stuff in other MMORPGs, but I think gaining a better understanding of what stuff in FFXI actually does would be a better approach.

Paralyze can't prevent a monster's TP moves, so it's drastically different than all of those abilities you compared it to. In fact, it can't even prevent a player's weapon skills.

There is an accuracy down spell. It's called Blind. There are two tiers of it, with the second tier being a Category II merit for reasons no sane man will ever grasp. It's sometimes useful, but the hardest monsters have huge amounts of accuracy so it just changes their hit rate from 95% to 95%.

I guess you're referring to accuracy and evasion down spells that would work on a percentage with no chance of resist, similar to Dia and Bio? If that's the case, I agree something like that would be nice.

[SpankWustler]

One person said earlier that they should change RDM's Group 2's to simply enhancing the potency of those spells and giving RDM those spells as scrolls instead - I would love this, but unfortunately that's not terribly likely to happen unless SE were to check every player to see who's merited which spells and mail them a scroll to their D box lol.

I think most people would be just fine with losing the merits and needing to buy the scrolls, if that was the way SE decided to re-work the Category 2 merits for some jobs. Well, assuming it made the merits more useful and/or more interesting.

[Duelle]

Accuracy down? You mean blind?

I mean something a little more potent. Well, without having to spend merits to get it, anyway. Blind II with reworked numbers as a scroll-learnable spell would probably do the trick. Reworking the numbers for Blind and getting rid of Blind II would also work. I will admit I did forget about it, though. Lack of use and lolBlindII being partly to blame.

I guess you're referring to accuracy and evasion down spells that would work on a percentage with no chance of resist, similar to Dia and Bio? If that's the case, I agree something like that would be nice.

My only real concern with percentages is that the numbers in-game aren't big enough for it to be "visible". It might be possible to work around it, though.

The fact that the concept of buff/debuff spread doesn't exist in FFXI might actually work in our favor, for once. The eva down idea could come into play as something that would create additional leeway for everyone, including the caster. That alone would be a huge feather in RDM's cap if they were to get something like that.

Paralyze can't prevent a monster's TP moves, so it's drastically different than all of those abilities you compared it to. In fact, it can't even prevent a player's weapon skills.

The fact that a spell can stop monster actions, even if they are as seemingly meaningless as auto attacks, is much bigger than you are considering.

PS: I'm guessing no one is against Dia and Bio being able to take effect on the same mob without the overwrite silliness.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Once again though greatguardian your point is IRRELEVENT to the question. "The question wasnt should we nuke with swords?" or "Can we nuke with swords?" or hell even "are swords better?" it has NOTHING to do with WHY we use staffs what so ever. We all know WHY we use staffs, but you are just taking a tangent as to what is good about staffs, my question put simply was does the magic accuracy generally matter? The group has spoken as said "NO" and it is further "flawed logic" from you to even assume that anyone on this board, or playing redmage is trying to insinuate that staffs are "useless" and we should drop them for swords.

In a nutshell, i asked "do we need knifes to cut apples?" and you shouted "yeah we need knifes to cut oranges and pears and grapefruit!" which is irrelevent and boarderline stupid of a statement. I thankyou for your insight on staffs, but do me a favor? Take the benefits of staffs, put it on a memo, and label it "THINGS WE ALREADY KNOW" and have it on my desk in an hour. Additionally, i never mentioned my question as to us needing to having swords stay in the weapon slots to keep tp, and expecting to use my full selection of spells at optimal potency. Because 99% of the rdm population understands that meleeing is a give and take thing for rdm, giving up nuking/healing potency for physical damage which does NOT deplete our mp as quickly as magical damage.

And if you cant be bothered reading all that, simple question. What was the point in bringing up the other benefits of staffs when nobody asked and everybody knows?

[Greatguardian]

Sooooooooo muuuuuuuuuuuuuch maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Simple answer to a shortsighted question? Depends on the content. Magic Accuracy does matter on some things. Does it always? Nah.

Real answer to the situation which spawned your question? The "anti-melee" crowd doesn't say that the only reason staves are important is for Magic Acc. It's the melee crowd who instantly jumps to Elemental Staves and Enfeebles whenever the Staff vs Sword question is raised, and touts the fact that Magic Acc is often superfluous as a reason why losing Staves for Swords is no big deal. The reality of it? Fulltiming swords is a big deal, and it has to do with a lot more than Magic Acc.

If you want to ask a single question, unrelated to the context surrounding it, try not including aggressive and argumentative verbage in the first place. If you're going to say "So how come all the magic-onlies keep saying all this dumb crap about magic acc whenever we bring up swords? It makie no sense!", expect one of those magic-onlies to make you check yourself before you wreck yourself. If you don't care about the situation that's causing your apparent confusion, then don't bring it up.

And if you can't be bothered reading all that, stop 4 beeing Rosina plx.

[Supersun]

To be fair your argument isn't as much staves as it is the ability to freely switch weapons without remorse.

Plenty of my weapons that I switch into aren't even staves. I mean the best convert weapon is a club and come 95 sword and shield/sword will likely beat terra's staff for PDT.

I mean when you say that a large part of backlinings power of the ability to equip staves that isn't exactly the best description of what you are describing and people tend to default to the old Macc from staves are needed argument.