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  1. #231
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    Mar 2011
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    Oh, finally, can cap haste on Rdm while meleeing without needing Goli body with that sword.

    Testing on FFXIAH Ukko's Fury setup thread suggests even T1/T2 VWNMs have abnormally high stats.


    Quote Originally Posted by 'Odin.Sawtelle' pid=1443059
    A note on my previously mentioned max dex sets for VWNMS. The vwnm (T1 mandy on windy path, which is one of the easier ones) I fought seemed to have an agi too high to to make it effective. in 3 fights I had a crit rate of 17% fulltiming 176 dex with 3% critrate gear and 5merits, so 9% crit from dex. this was out of 132 landed hits. Very small sample size. Will post more as I get more data.
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    Last edited by Neisan_Quetz; 08-27-2011 at 08:20 AM.

  2. #232
    Player Swords's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher View Post
    That has now officially confused me. Some of the anti-melee group claim we cant afford to lose the m.acc from the ele/hq staffs, but others say "nobody needs that much m.acc" so which is it really? I dont mean in a mechanics sense, i personally can land enfeebles pretty reliably with either a sword/dagger or staff equipped, but i mean, we as a group should be able to agree if we have enough magic acc or not with capped skill.
    It's because everyone takes the context regarding the "ideal" situation of a persons post differently. Everyone has their own ideas on what exactly is considered a "trash" or "too weak" mob, everyone has their own idea of what would be considered an "ideal" melee RDM as well as a "ideal" mage RDM, everyone interprets what they think is "ideal" way to act in any given situation, and everyone interprets the average view of the players performance based on their own ideals and what the majority of the server playerbase thinks works best.

    It's not too surprising to see alot of contradictions in different posts, even those who contradict themselves somewhere down the line. Best way to deal with it is just try and be general about it because if you try to lead into one specific situation that might warrant or not-warrant a particular instance people usually come out of the woodwork saying your cutting-teeth or they completely misinterpret it. It still happens, but I doubt anyone want's to sit there explaining every specific scenario where something could be applied just to be followed up with more misinterpreted arguments.
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  3. #233
    Player Malacite's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duelle View Post
    If that's how you feel, how about we steer the discussion in that direction instead of acting like Temper is the last, final spell we will ever get between now and the day the servers shut down for good? More melee gear has always been on the list of requests from the melee camp, so it's not like you're alone in asking for that. And I agree, RDM should be on Homam at the very least.

    There's also the possibility of our low sword skill being dealt with when the revision of weapon proficiencies is done. I'd like all the fixes to RDM melee to be done ASAP too, but some of us see Temper as a step in the right direction.

    What is with people's reading comprehension here?

    What I was getting at was if SE's idea of RDM being a "Master Enhancer" is powerful but self-targeting buffs, then we have a real problem here because all that's really going to accomplish is making RDM even more overpowered when soloing.

    SE is completely ignoring the glaring issues facing RDM as a viable frontline option which I already outlined in my previous post. It's possible but unlikely that all the new magic RDM gets will make up for it's current weaknesses. And even it it does, all that means is you wind up with a very high-maintenance (though somewhat self-sustaining thanks to Composure & Refresh II) frontline job.

    It's great if there's nothing else available, but at this point EXP is so stupidly easy to get and DD's are a dime a dozen so why not just save the hassle and get a proper DD and let the RDM do what they're really meant to. I've long been a proponent of RDM melee and do still feel SE could be doing a lot more to make it a viable option, but even if they do it probably still won't be all that common.

    It's a hell of a lot easier on the devs as well to just fix the minor issues that are plaguing the job, and focus the new spells on buffing the party and giving us more potent enfeebling magic.

    Speaking of which, still waiting to hear about these "Fixes" to Enfeebling that they mentioned earlier at the tail end of the Job Adjustments post (or whichever one it was, it was fairly recent along with WS adjustments etc.) It'd be wonderful, for example, to be able to addle/silence NMs that spam magic even if only for a few moments.

    Break too would be nice. Obviously these fights could become trivial very quickly if SE goes too far with the changes, but it would be nice if the most vital spells that could really make an impact on big fights actually worked for a change instead of just Slow & Paralyze.
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  4. #234
    Player Greatguardian's Avatar
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    Temper has nothing to do with the Manifesto or Red Mage's role as an enhancer. It's a melee buff, because people wanted melee buffs. It is not expected to make Red Mage a viable frontline option, frankly nothing will ever accomplish this. But all of the reasonable RdMelee proponents here have been asking for a simply buff regardless of whether it would change the job's status or not, and that is what they got.
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  5. #235
    Player saevel's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    @Neisan_Quetz

    VWNM's are the only mobs with stats higher then normal. From what I can see, VWNM's are basically Abyssea NM's but outside Abysea and thus no Crour buffs / Atma's. Also from what I can tell they have behave weirdly when it comes to pDiff / fSTR / dDex / dINT. As the above info shows, 170+ dex didn't cap crit, yet significantly less dex doesn't floor crit either, same with fSTR an dINT. It's almost as if these mobs have different rules and I wouldn't put it past SE to do this.
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  6. #236
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    I'm not even sure if Temper was added because folks were clamoring for melee buffs. It's not so different from the en-spells of olden days so it may have been already in the plans. At any rate, it will soon exist. It is what it is.

    Anyone with a burning desire to melee every-gosh-darned-thing while clad in red trousers but without an Almace will probably be disappointed by Temper. Anyone who only melees stuff Even Match or below will probably be happy to use it for Campaign and other such occasions.

    At this point, I'm more interested in whether or not Spontaneity (and Manawell) can target other party members. The phrasing of the abilities makes it sound like they will.
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  7. #237
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    I'm going with bad wording at this moment and assuming it's self only.
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  8. #238
    Player VraeliaRDM's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Bismarck
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    Character
    Vraelia
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    Bismarck
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    RDM Lv 99
    Ok, I stand corrected on the Temper/Fast spells. Malacite, I apologize. At least, I can admit I am wrong. /asks for forgivness. Lols
    (1)

  9. #239
    Player Crimson_Slasher's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
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    356
    Character
    Grievor
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Little late to the response but greatguardian, im going to be frank, a post about the m.acc of staffs and wether they are needed or not does NOT translate "to why do we use staffs?!"

    That was an irrelevent response to the question i asked, its the same reason some rng (i do at times) use fire staff, or smn use staffs, they still have uses, but i will tell you now, a ranger doesnt use a fire staff for fire magic accuracy, and under most situations, even summoners dont use them for magic accuracy. So try to not go off on a totally unrelated tangent from asking if we actually (Generally) need the magic accuracy (i did not mention nuking or other bonuses they represent) to perform as rdm (which as many claim we are an enfeebler) enfeebling.
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  10. #240
    Player Duelle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    658
    Character
    Duelle
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Malacite View Post
    What is with people's reading comprehension here?
    I'm simply trying to steer the thread into a direction that is not crying over us not getting another spell to cycle under the delusion that it'll make our job "wanted" and "useful", as if Temper being castable on others is the panacea to RDM's woes. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that a number of people who have played the job for a prolongued amount of time hate cycling, and have expressed their feelings on the matter here and on other threads.

    As I've said, right now we should be clamoring for a buff spread/share mechanic unique to our class if you want to help the enhancing side of the job, followed by a mechanic to streamline buffing (something like Readiness). Melee buffs that come with it (gear, revised weapon proficiencies, more WS) are also welcome.
    Obviously these fights could become trivial very quickly if SE goes too far with the changes, but it would be nice if the most vital spells that could really make an impact on big fights actually worked for a change instead of just Slow & Paralyze.
    This is an issue more with the design behind enfeebling than anything else. Though honestly speaking, debuffs generally either increase damage taken, decrease attack, decrease defense, and under certain scenarios, decrease attack speeds. Paralyze alone is super OP from a design standpoint, specially when you're looking at it from the perspective of "what would happen if Para was in X game". It follows the same logic as to why bosses in other games are immune to knock-downs, blanket silences, interrupt abilities barring certain spells that are designed to be interrupted, and so on.

    Sadly, Final Fantasy's debuffs are few and extremely powerful. Yes it'd be pretty damn ridiculous if Confuse, Break, Amnesia and such actually worked on boss level mobs. Now, if you want to go into the topic of enfeebling design, I can tell you that an accuracy down enfeeble would be nice. A notable evasion down that is separate from Gravity would also be very nice (in before "l0lz u cna cap ACC ez"), even better if it can stack with other debuffs that have a similar effect. Dia and Bio stacking on mobs like they can on player characters would also help. I'd be willing to work with it even if it were to follow the "one spell per player" rule; I could live with a RDM casting Dia III on a mob and a BLM casting Bio II or a second RDM casting Bio III with both spells taking effect on the mob instead of overwriting each other.

    Edit: oops. Forgot Bio uses dark magic skill for the dot effect, not the attack down effect.
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    Last edited by Duelle; 08-27-2011 at 10:16 PM.
    * The sad thing is that FFXIV turned RDM into a turret, and people think that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to combine sword and magic into something more, not spend the bulk of gameplay spamming spells and jump into melee for only 3 GCDs before scurrying back to the back line.

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