[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Mageoholic]

Or they could just adjust the enmity of all healing spells to match the levels C5 puts out. There is no reason a single 400 C4 should pull hate over a 1K C5. Not to mention the bane of low level grouping was always the healer pulling hate off the tank. It occurred so often in the game and didn't need to.

Healing skill needs to change, it has to affect the power of cures to a greater extent. There is no reason anything /WHM with a Light Staff can heal almost as well as my RDM (unless they have Cure+% gear.), let alone a level 61 WHM out healing a 90 RDM. (to the poster above, this is a comparison between my jobs, and regarding abyssea.)

But i think enmity levels on cures should be lowered to C5 levels across the board.

(not to mention next cap increase anything /RDM has the exact same base curing power as us.)

[Seriha]

Step out of Abyssea and see how long a 61 WHM can hold over RDM in endgame situations. This isn't much different than people saying anyone who subs WHM is as good a healer, as RDM's healing isn't all about raw curative power, but how Fast Cast helps them get cures out faster while debuffs keep damage from coming less often. A 61 WHM will not be landing Slow or Paralyze, nor have anywhere near the MP longevity or potential cure potency.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Or they could just adjust the enmity of all healing spells to match the levels C5 puts out. There is no reason a single 400 C4 should pull hate over a 1K C5. Not to mention the bane of low level grouping was always the healer pulling hate off the tank. It occurred so often in the game and didn't need to.

Healing skill needs to change, it has to affect the power of cures to a greater extent. There is no reason anything /WHM with a Light Staff can heal almost as well as my RDM (unless they have Cure+% gear.), let alone a level 61 WHM out healing a 90 RDM. (to the poster above, this is a comparison between my jobs, and regarding abyssea.)

But i think enmity levels on cures should be lowered to C5 levels across the board.
/
(not to mention next cap increase anything /RDM has the exact same base curing power as us.)

Not to mention Haste.

[Kitkat]

Step out of Abyssea and see how long a 61 WHM can hold over RDM in endgame situations. This isn't much different than people saying anyone who subs WHM is as good a healer, as RDM's healing isn't all about raw curative power, but how Fast Cast helps them get cures out faster while debuffs keep damage from coming less often. A 61 WHM will not be landing Slow or Paralyze, nor have anywhere near the MP longevity or potential cure potency.

Considering most whm to any endgame outside of abyssea will always be 90+, this has little merit. Considering that, this is technically inaccurate ever since whm gained the passive trait Divine Benison. In conjunction with this passive, merits to lower recast on cure, and gear that gives additional -cure casing time they have actually reached the same casting speeds as rdm has with 1-4 line and near instance cast for V and VI. The only time my whm has run into MP efficiency issues is when curing more than 8 people without any other back up. Ever since /rdm came along with refresh and convert not to mention upwards of 5mp/tic worth of gear to swap into and gear that actually lowers the cost of cures (returns 5% of cured hp back to mp) even out of abyssea it isn't an issue to keep mp through longer fights. On top of this Whm also has Regen IV and Curaga I-V to return hp far more effectively.

The only time my rdm has really seemed to pull ahead is when a constant stream of cures needs to be sent out, but those situations only appeared if someone couldn't listen to a fight strategy and were being incompetent. Not to mention eventually it down-spirals due to the limited choices of cure/hp restorative spells available to rdm.

[Seriha]

I have no doubt 90+ WHMs are in a good place. I was just focusing on how a 61 WHM or anyone not RDM or SCH /WHM isn't THAT good.

[Economizer]

Don't undervalue yourself. Not every White Mage has a ton of Refresh gear, and even those that do definitely benefit from having a Red Mage Refresh II them (especially since many White Mages sub Scholar and have to rely on Sublimation otherwise). While I can manage MP decently in WoE with gear as a White Mage, I definitely miss my Red Mage friends (I also didn't 5/5 Devotion for nothing). And heaven forbid I try to level there with my terribly geared Summoner.

That said, I'm thinking that there should be more ways to boost the effectiveness of Refresh II then just the AF3 pants, especially since Bards and Corsairs have so much Refresh to cast these days. Perhaps Refresh II should grant an extra point per tic per 100 Enhancing Magic skill?

I have no doubt 90+ WHMs are in a good place. I was just focusing on how a 61 WHM or anyone not RDM or SCH /WHM isn't THAT good.

To be fair, SMN/WHM, since they cap cure potency. BRD/WHM can do it now too, and since they can cast a decent amount of Refresh, although I fully expect them to go /RDM with Cure IV and Haste, for the Fast Cast. I could mention BLU as well, but they excel for different reasons.

Of course, all of these jobs (except maybe BLU) have been asked to main cure in a party at some point, and support cure for events too. I'd go on, but the idea that a 61 WHM can outheal a Red Mage without a Refresh source is laughable, and moot since nobody invites a 61 White Mage to an event unless they really don't want to invite other people.

[saevel]

Personally I'd just want SE to create a RDM line of state enfeebling spells and not make NM's resistant to them. I've said it before but it bears repeating.

Attack-Down
Defense-Down
Magic-Attack Down
Magic-Defense Down
Evasion-Down
Accuracy-Down
Magic-Evasion-Down
Magic-Accuracy-Down
Crit-Rate-Down

And then base STAT enfeebles
Reduce-STR
Reduce-VIT
Reduce-DEX
Reduce-AGI
Reduce-MND
Reduce-INT
Reduce-CHR

The BLM and DRK versions both have serious side effects (C and D skill respectively) along with poor scaling.

Those would make me a happy camper.

[Kitkat]

Eh, I think refresh II is fine the way it is actually. Coupled with gear effects (a whm or a rdm has at least 2-3 pieces easily) it isn't too hard to get 9~12mp/tic outside of abyssea. If we were still stuck using refresh and it wasn't available via sub then I could see a change like that being a good idea. Honestly, I've rarely ever had the chance to be pair with a rdm (or the few I did forgot to refresh II on occasions) let alone two jobs (cor brd or rdm) that could stack refresh options. In the rare chance that does occur, you're then capable of getting 10~15mp/tic or greater if all 3 are together. Like I said though, that is a rare occurrence. Given this I can't see the need for the potency of Refresh II to scale with enhancing magic.

As for the new line of enfeebles, hmmm. The acc/eva/att/etc ones kinda exist already, but were given to blu instead (not that many really use them even if they set them). You lost me for a second about the reduce-stat line since it almost sounded like you were comparing them to drks absorb-stat which they have good skill rating for since it works off dark magic skill. Given that, I seriously doubt if they made this line that drk would even get it, but blm might...though they already have spells similar to this in the form of choke/burn/drown/etc and is based of elemental skill and has DoT effect.

Still would hope that SE reforms the Tier II enfeebles by making them actual scrolls and instead making Tier II merits "enhance potency" of said enfeeble types. It just doesn't make much sense that a job that has A+ enfeebling has to unlock spells of this type, and at a limited choice range, rather than learn them. Especailly when they aren't extremely strong considering certain other enfeebling spells/songs brd or blu get.

[saevel]

Eh, I think refresh II is fine the way it is actually. Coupled with gear effects (a whm or a rdm has at least 2-3 pieces easily) it isn't too hard to get 9~12mp/tic outside of abyssea. If we were still stuck using refresh and it wasn't available via sub then I could see a change like that being a good idea. Honestly, I've rarely ever had the chance to be pair with a rdm (or the few I did forgot to refresh II on occasions) let alone two jobs (cor brd or rdm) that could stack refresh options. In the rare chance that does occur, you're then capable of getting 10~15mp/tic or greater if all 3 are together. Like I said though, that is a rare occurrence. Given this I can't see the need for the potency of Refresh II to scale with enhancing magic.

As for the new line of enfeebles, hmmm. The acc/eva/att/etc ones kinda exist already, but were given to blu instead (not that many really use them even if they set them). You lost me for a second about the reduce-stat line since it almost sounded like you were comparing them to drks absorb-stat which they have good skill rating for since it works off dark magic skill. Given that, I seriously doubt if they made this line that drk would even get it, but blm might...though they already have spells similar to this in the form of choke/burn/drown/etc and is based of elemental skill and has DoT effect.

Still would hope that SE reforms the Tier II enfeebles by making them actual scrolls and instead making Tier II merits "enhance potency" of said enfeeble types. It just doesn't make much sense that a job that has A+ enfeebling has to unlock spells of this type, and at a limited choice range, rather than learn them. Especailly when they aren't extremely strong considering certain other enfeebling spells/songs brd or blu get.

We know they exist already, monsters use them all the time. BLU's kinda sorta have them, but their effect tends to be random and often long casting and not very efficient. I'm talking a straight spell that only does that effect.

Both BLM and DRK have a form of -stat down, both have horrible side effects. For BLM its that they have elements that are incompatible and have horrible scaling. 150+ INT is only -13 stat, and you can't get -AGI and -VIT at the same time.

For DRK its that they have horrible duration, the effect starts to wear immediately upon cast making it useful for a handful of seconds only. RDM also has D skill in dark magic which limits our ability to use the Absorb spells.

I'm wanting a real enfeebling skill based version that reduces the stats directly.

If SE is wanting us to be masters of enfeebling then they need to be serious about it. No half stepping or half way measure will work.

[tyrantsyn]

Personally I'd just want SE to create a RDM line of state enfeebling spells and not make NM's resistant to them. I've said it before but it bears repeating.

Attack-Down
Defense-Down
Magic-Attack Down
Magic-Defense Down
Evasion-Down
Accuracy-Down
Magic-Evasion-Down
Magic-Accuracy-Down
Crit-Rate-Down

And then base STAT enfeebles
Reduce-STR
Reduce-VIT
Reduce-DEX
Reduce-AGI
Reduce-MND
Reduce-INT
Reduce-CHR

The BLM and DRK versions both have serious side effects (C and D skill respectively) along with poor scaling.

Those would make me a happy camper.

I think SE would sooner bring Oracle out to ffxi before giving us these. But that's not to say I don't love the idea. having half of these would even be great.