[dev1024] Job adjustments - RDM

[Khiinroye]

With the nefer body from the update, it's easy for any mage to cap cure potency now.

[Economizer]

White mage: Experts in whit magic that specialize in healing and recovery spells. Weak in close combat, and prohibited from using blade weapons.

Hey! White Mages are far from inept in close combat. Actually, if anything, White Mages are weak in every combat that isn't close.

but at least make healing magic actually apply to healing spells. It is stupid that my 61WHM can heal for 200-300 more HP then my 90RDM.

I don't think you could find a White Mage (okay, any real White Mages that aren't Abyssean burn victims who play the job only to get gear) who would disagree with you that healing magic skill should have a larger impact on cure strength, but the last time it was discussed in the White Mage forums, some people whined about it making White Mage more powerful, despite the fact that it would do the same for anyone else who cures.

A lack of native MP regeneration is White Mage's primary weakness at low levels. When this is eliminated, effectiveness skyrockets. This was the reason why Red Mage could outheal a White Mage at the 75 cap when set as the only healer.

Without Refresh, it is no contest, you will outheal the 61 White Mage. With Refresh, you either have someone Refreshing the White Mage, meaning that a bunch of the healing is partially coming from the Refresh source, or you are in Abyssea. If you are a Red Mage in a party refreshing the 61 White Mage, and you are upset they are out healing you, stop. They won't be out healing you very much longer.

If you are in Abyssea, there isn't much you can do. You are trying to compete with someone who has had their primary weakness (for that level) mitigated. Plus they can now hit 44% cure potency with Atma too, and stack on Afflatus Solace for a 25% boost on top.

Of course, nobody invites a 61 White Mage over a 95 Red Mage to cure except in some experience parties in Abyssea. And even then, it has to do more with the fact that the 61 White Mage will probably stick around longer. Basically, this is a bad hypothetical about competing with someone who has had their weakness nearly eliminated, in a rare situation few people actually deal with.

[Kitkat]

Think the main point was side-stepped to state the obvious. Mageholic was griping about being out cured by a primary healer and at the same time quashed the usual "I want cure V" that some expect that rdm should get but saying instead "I can deal without it." They however didn't offer anything other than this so I offered up a plausible solution while stating some potential pitfalls of a solution.

Didn't state Rdm couldn't get capped potency nor sufficient -enmity, only that increasing a tier of already available cures in some fashion to make up for the less than adequate healing capabilities of the job will have long term detrimental effects AKA, long fights will result in both a tank and the rdm reaching capped hate and each Cure IV will produce decent amounts of VE that can cause the mob being fought to have a ping pong effect. Even in my -enmity build I can only bomb with IV so much before reaching this situation, so increasing it would create more VE/HP restored thus requiring some other way to further negate this while performing this type of role in a primary sense. Hence why I mentioned another tier of tranquil heart, anything to negate the otherwise hard to avoid outcome of dropping IV's over and over again.

Cure IV reaches around the 600 range in capped potency if I recall correctly, while no contest to V's 1k restoration, that isn't exactly bad considering outside of abyssea that is a little less than half a standard melee's HP pool. Inside of abysea however, that isn't much when you take into consideration a standard melee with all abyssite has close to, or over 3k hp.

[Scuro]

/sigh
This is truly frustrating with RDMs, but I've already proven my point, and well, nothing is going to come of DD things anyway so I have no reason to stay here. I'm done now /tap out, see you around if this ever starts picking up again.

[saevel]

Along this line I think SE should fix the healing skill issue. Up the cap on III / IV / V and let healing skill sort it out. RDM shouldn't be getting Cure V while Cure VI is so poor. But I could see SE making Cure III ~ V more potent across the board.

[Economizer]

Along this line I think SE should fix the healing skill issue. Up the cap on III / IV / V and let healing skill sort it out. RDM shouldn't be getting Cure V while Cure VI is so poor. But I could see SE making Cure III ~ V more potent across the board.

Okay, I dug up the White Mage post on Healing Magic (not hard, not many people post there) and found one of the many suggestions I had for it. I was trying to spark conversation for better suggestions, but alas, people whined instead of people brainstorming.

Healing Magic skill should improve cures regardless of what job you have, and lets be honest - while this is a more important issue to White Mages whose only role is to dish out the cures and support - other jobs would probably get more benefit from this then White Mages.

If, for example, you cured +X more points of curing per cure, where,

X = (Healing Magic Skill -300) * (Tier of Cure)

then we would see a much more noticeable increase on lower tier cures then larger tier cures - even if Cure V cured 375 more points per cure, a 225 point boost to Cure III, and a 300 point boost to Cure IV would affect non-White Mage curing much more.

Keep in mind that this formula is just a basic suggestion that would need tweaking however. Perhaps it would help if someone gave a good suggestion for this, instead of saying that White Mage has no complaints, because a good tweak to how important Healing Magic skill is could help non-White Mage classes out too.

Who knows? Maybe cures are in need of a drastic increase in power in general. Maybe my basic proposal isn't all that good, maybe the cap should just be raised for all spells (especially Cure VI ). But maybe this will help spark discussion.

[saevel]

Well the cure formula already scales pretty well with skill. But there is a soft cap placed on the effects of skill / MND that make it ridiculously easy to hit at subjob level skill. If they would ease up on that then you'd see a noticeable jump in base cure power of each spell, including cure V.

[Economizer]

Well the cure formula already scales pretty well with skill. But there is a soft cap placed on the effects of skill / MND that make it ridiculously easy to hit at subjob level skill. If they would ease up on that then you'd see a noticeable jump in base cure power of each spell, including cure V.

I don't think Healing Magic skill affects cures enough, regardless of whether or not it can be considered to scale up well. It takes five points of Healing Magic skill to equal a point of Mind, even on higher tier cures, and it isn't like there is a piece of gear that gives more then 20 points (effectively 4 MND, but without the offensive casting benefits).

On just removing the caps, I thought it sounded like a good idea, so I looked into it and did some advanced research on some of the cures. I already knew that Cure V and VI hard cap and Cure I, II, III, and IV all softcap (much of this is tested from Brews I believe?) and the fomulas vary between them. Cure V's formula is much less impressive when softcaps are removed as well (and Cure VI even less so, both with and without any caps).

Of course, you didn't suggest removing the caps altogether (and I don't think SE ever would either, since Cure I/II would both cure about 500 a piece, Cure III about 600, Cure IV about 1000, and Cure V around 1305 - basically, unless enmity is an issue, Cure V would be placed about where Cure VI is now, Cure IV would be the go to large damage cure, and White Mages would alternate between Cure I/II because they'd both be free cures with AF3 pants), and I'm mainly posting this because it is interesting.

But if the cure caps were eased up so that MP efficiency could reach anywhere higher then around 1.1HP/MP, this would mean that Cure V would start to perform poorly compared to other cures unless the formula for it was changed. If Cure IV got a 1.1HP/MP boost to its softcap, it would mean it would heal something like 500HP (~750HP at 50% potency gear) compared to its current ~400HP (~600HP). Cure III would cure about an additional ~50HP (~75HP) more. I'm not sure these are the numbers we'd want to see, so Cure V might need adjustment if softcaps were eased upon - Healing Magic skill would be a good way to do this.

I'm sorry if I got a bit sidetracked, but based on looking into this idea, I'm not sure if it is completely preferable, but more input helps any analysis.

[Kitkat]

Would be interesting if that could be implemented without the Enmity increasing along with it. Due to the high HP ranges most reach now, both in and out of abyssea, there should be something that adjusts the way the cure spells react once beyond a set skill lvl. Something like less than 300 skill produces the current soft caps, but beyond 300 skill range causes a new equation which enhances the limits of cure spells, or possibly anything learned at the level 85 range (passive trait) that allows cures to extend beyond their previous limitations. Only thing that really worries me about increasing the caps of lower tier is the enmity gains that come with it if they don't re-adjust those as well.

[Seriha]

Maybe just make it so the previous tier can reach 80% of the next with healing skill in relation to WHM's gains. So, if Cure II would heal 90, Cure I could heal 72 by the time you could learn Cure II if you had capped skill. Current enmity values could be maintained so a 500-something Cure IV before gear won't basically be provoke on an 8s recast.