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  1. #1
    Player Tazz's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    73
    Character
    Tazz
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99

    dev1024 - healing magic

    Sad to see that still no cure V for Scholar or Red Mage. This is a spell we could make great use of, please let us help cure our party members better.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player DebbieGibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    250
    Character
    Solbadgirl
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 1
    level whm bro, or bring a whm friend
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player Gaiben's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    29
    Character
    Gaiben
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Yes, they said they were going to add something to help with this. I guess all those RDM complaining that there sword abilities where good enough ruined it for us. Though I won't complain about getting raise III and reraise III on SCH, I have had a scroll waiting for that since December.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Saefinn's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria - Asura
    Posts
    259
    Character
    Saefinn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    We got Embrava though. I think it should be a normal spell to be honest. If you think about it, we Helix + Nuke for more damage, why not Embrava + Cure for more heals, we don't get any regen spells that are potent enough to follow our 'over time' aspect and our Adloquium spell isn't that great. Embrava as a potent Regen/Regain spell would make SCH more useful. I've always felt our DoTs were there to help us multi-task or to deal more damage on top of nukes. I've wanted to do the same with Regen, but in the higher levels it's not viable, in lower levels, I'd use a Regen to keep people happy and nuke a couple of times then repeat.

    If Embrava is potent, then it's a shame it's a 2hr spell. But we shall see how useful these new additions are.
    (1)
    Last edited by Saefinn; 08-20-2011 at 03:33 AM.
    Saefinn on Asura
    Main Jobs: Corsair: i117, Scholar: i117, Monk: i117, Summoner: i117

  5. #5
    Player Delvish's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok Rank 10
    Posts
    338
    Character
    Delvish
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Given the proven potency of Klaustra, I feel Embrava will have a similar potency, providing high initial cure followed by a potent regen/regain effect + haste. My estimate is 50-100/tic regen, 5-10/tic regain, and your standard magic haste. I also expect this to be Accessionable much like its Dark Arts counterpart. Just a theory. I'm sure we'll be given plenty of opportunities to play with it.
    (1)
    Samurai Archery is said to be a thing of the past, but it isn't dead yet!

  6. #6
    Player Tazz's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    73
    Character
    Tazz
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    @ DebbieGibson I have whm leveled but thats not the issue.

    DNC and even a blue mage can achieve more HP cured than a rdm or a scholar who are supposed to be able to use both schools of magic (white and black) with good (not great) proficiency. Cure V will not eliminate then need/desire for whm either, at least not in my opinion. WHM is such a powerful healer, yet I never get to play on RDM on SCH anymore because poeple always want my whm. We get cure IV (SCH55 and RDM48) yet we go 40-47 levels without any more curing magic...

    As far as Tabula Rasa Embrava curing goes, regardless of what it does, is not a viable main healing option. Maybe its just a rant, but I do know others are both opposed and for CURE V for other mages.

    One solution/idea I have is to allow normal enmity rules for Cure V for rdm and sch, and allow whm to still have the same enmity gained from cure V and cure III. It just seems silly to have these rdm and sch, who are supposed to be a hybrid mages, unable to cast a basic spell to recover HP.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Sasaraixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    276
    Character
    Sasaraixx
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    I think most SCH's are a bit disappointed with this update. I feel that now is a good time to throw out our suggestions to the Dev team once again. I know most of you out there are more creative than me when it comes to suggesting new ideas, but I will give it a go.

    Cure V would be the easiest way to improve our healing aspect. It would also be the least creative and do nothing for helping establish SCH as a unique class. Our DOT spells are our most unique aspect and seem like the best way to go. The problem with DOT healing, however, is that if your tank takes huge damage you do not have the luxury of waiting 10 ticks to get his HP back up. In order to make this a viable route, we would need general buffs to all aspects of our Light Arts. I also think that a good balancing factor may be to make us proficient at single target healing, but not party-wide healing. This would allow WHM to maintain a distinct advantage. (And I don't just mean the Curaga spells. Being able to cycle between Cure V and VI(as inefficient as it is) allows WHM to heal multiple party members rapidly after a devastating AOE move.)

    1) Healing Helix - Let's call it "Sanare." It would have to be more potent than Regen IV, but not so powerful that you cast it once and go afk. I think the idea should be for it to be used in conjunction with Cure IV. The only problem is that it would completely render the Regen spells useless, unless they were stackable.

    The other option is to give SCH a Job Trait or Stance that improves the potency of all Regen type spells. I don't know how potent the dot needs to be to make this viable.

    2) Improved Stratagem Usage
    SCH has a lot of stratagems at its disposal that could help with our healing. The problem is that we don't have enough of them to rely on in a main healing situation AND it is too time consuming to have to use Rapture, Penury, Tranquility before each cure. Perhaps we could have a "sub-stance" or job ability that is available only in Light Arts. While under this effect, you receive 2 uses for each stratagem. So if you use Rapture, it will be applied to your next 2 cures, etc. There obviously needs to be a penalty, but the only thing I can think of is making Dark Arts inaccessible for a set period of time.

    3) Improvement of Existing Spells
    I am mainly referring to the Animus spells. If these spells actually worked, they would give us a way to handle the enmity issues of Cure IV. I would also add the storm spells to this list. If they were given additional effects, offensive or defensive, then it would help group kill faster or take less damage. Both would help lessen the curing load of the SCH.

    4) Meriting Light Arts
    Perhaps the next set of merits can include merits to Light (and Dark) Arts. For example, you could merit effects like enmity decay or casting time.

    5) Gear
    SCH is often excluded from a lot of the mage equipment. Adding the job to pieces like Roundel or having it be the second job on the WHM pieces instead of SMN could also be helpful. They've started doing this for BLM/SCH so hopefully they would be more open to doing this for white magic based pieces.

    Also, it would be nice if we actually knew what our AF3 body does or perhaps have the enmity effect changed would also help.

    What does everyone else think?
    (7)
    Last edited by Sasaraixx; 08-20-2011 at 08:38 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Crossarius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Chaosi
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 95
    Honestly it is a disappointment to notice there are no new unique spells or abilities for SCH! Kaustra and embrava cannot be counted. We have these spells at our disposal only for about 90 seconds (post-update) every two hours. The rest of the time we can keep on being a semi-gimpy healer. Dark arts doesn't really need too much work but we certainly lack our NEW unique spells!

    Where are they? Why does every other Mage job gain new utility spells but SCH doesn't? Do not misunderstand. It's great other mage jobs are getting new toys (myself being a Black Mage too).
    But Tier II Storms, Tier II Helix would be a no-brainer and as a first tier of them is already existent, it just cannot be too hard to make them.

    There were many good ideas post, I certainly liked the idea of fireback spells, a kind of "traps" laid out on the mob.
    There is not even a buff to our existing unique spells and the level cap is being upped again and there isn't a single one for us!

    I'd happily trade Embrava and Kaustra for usefull spells usable the rest of the 118,5 minutes! I'd forfeit raise and reraise3 too.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Merton9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Mordru
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaraixx View Post
    Good ideas
    I like your ideas as usual Sasaraixx. I'll support any Cure V alternative that works without being a reactive spamming of one spell, a la WHM.

    1)I like your name for the healing helix the most! The concept is a little too abstract right now to know if it would turn out useful. I can see if you have 200+ HP ticking at the frequency of regen then you get essentially a Cure V result in the time it takes to cast Cure IV or a bit after. That may be enough.

    My problem with this is it just seems so ordinary. I'm more a fan of SCH keeping a party alive by not having to cure at all, which was largely the case in old exp parties 40-75. I think they can do this by boosting Adloquium and Animus enough that we keep the attention on the tank ensured, and by introducing phalanx/stoneskin style damage mitigation alternatives like the Glyphs that Judge posted a while back. If Abyssea-style "balance" is kept, it may not be possible to make enmity and TP control matter anymore, though, so Sanare it is!

    2) Sotek had mentioned something like this and I like it. Maybe a JA you use before strat that makes the strat last a period of time instead of wearing off with one spell, but during that time you can't switch arts?

    3) very much in support of boosting storms and animus. For storms, I'd go with the Geomancy JA that increases the target's current weather to double weather and adds a bonus associated with the element (double attack for fire, critical hit for wind, etc.). Most importantly, I'd put the JA on a timer so we can maybe have it applied to one or two people at once, but not the whole party. I'd rather have this idea of trade-off than just replace all current tier 1 storms with a different tier 2 to cycle for everyone. Geomancy would be a nice merit ability where you can reduce the recast timer with upgrades, and would be a natural 99 extension of Stormsurge imo.

    For Animus and Adloquium, I like the idea posted here of a party-target Modus Veritas ability that increased potency and decreased duration of tick based buffs. Again, make it so we can boost regen (or Sanare!), Adloquium etc. on maybe one or two people based on the recast.

    5) Gear is where I don't think we need help. I often see Aurorastorm + Korin Obi + Twilight Cape left off of our cure potency considerations. With these, you can force light weather bonus to proc 100% of the time, and our current available cure potency stands at 59% (1.38 gear x 1.15 spell + cape + obi), which is higher than WHM can get due to gear cap being 50% and WHM not being able to rely on weather without a SCH main. I think this is why SCH was left off of Roundel and Facio.
    (5)

  10. #10
    Player Economizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Giving other jobs Cure V itself currently would cause more problems then most people lend credit to it, at least for White Mage. Of course, there are people who don't recognize this because they hate the job. They claim that White Mages who don't support Cure V to other classes but instead support Scholar getting unique buffs are being lazy and not using their tools but requiring Scholar who are doing the majority of healing in a party to accession a few buffs are legendary heroes who shouldn't be considered in game balance, despite effective White Mages having to run up to the mob to do buffs that place the White Mage closer to the mob for longer. Then they count the White Mage having to risk its hide as reasons White Mage is more powerful then White Mage's most powerful spell, and count Cure VI as a mark of what a White Mage is, despite it not being the more efficient cure spell.

    Anyways, enough ranting about players who are upset their job isn't White Mage. I'll get to someone with good ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaraixx View Post
    Healing Helix
    I think many people have suggested this idea. Mainly because it is good and fits the feel of Scholar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merton9999 View Post
    very much in support of boosting storms and animus. For storms, I'd go with the Geomancy JA that increases the target's current weather to double weather and adds a bonus associated with the element (double attack for fire, critical hit for wind, etc.).
    Somehow, this is the only way I can see Scholar getting double weather due to the consequences of Scholars getting it. Except, I see it being a job ability that would only work on other targets.

    If SE thinks that double weather isn't straight overpowered for Scholar though, they might just get it. I have mixed feelings on the matter myself, since on one hand, weather effects are contenders for Scholar's single best unique buff that fits the flavor of the job, but on the other, a 30% bonus to spells is very powerful. I hope SE figures something out (or at worst, makes Scholars who 2hour get double weather spells), because I would like to see double weather, even if it isn't something that can be used often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merton9999 View Post
    Gear is where I don't think we need help. I often see Aurorastorm + Korin Obi + Twilight Cape left off of our cure potency considerations. With these, you can force light weather bonus to proc 100% of the time, and our current available cure potency stands at 59% (1.38 gear x 1.15 spell + cape + obi), which is higher than WHM can get due to gear cap being 50% and WHM not being able to rely on weather without a SCH main. I think this is why SCH was left off of Roundel and Facio.
    Most arguments about who has what cure spells pretty much ignore this (and any other points that might be against people getting Cure V). Either getting capped cure potency (Abyssea you can get this without even getting the two harder cure potency pieces) or double weather effects would put Scholar at a rate where they could effectively negate the very situational advantage of cureskin on all but the best geared White Mages. Capped cure potency plus double weather would just curb stomp any White Mage not being buffed by a Scholar (72% for capped + Aura, 79% for 38% + double Aura, and 95% for both capped and double Aura).

    If I had to guess on the biggest reason Scholar doesn't get Cure V, this would be one of the first two guesses I'd put forth.

    Of course, once Abyssea lowmans aren't what everyone on the forums is whining about, we'll probably see endgame content that has Scholar being the support backbone of most alliances. I much more enjoy discussion about what cool new toys all the mage classes get in larger parties rather then moaning about lowmans, since this happens to be an MMO.
    (1)

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