Beastmaster's MOST pressing matter

[Glamdring]

Wasn't getting anything mixed up, beast has been my main job since the NA release of the game. By pet spam in voidwatch I was referring to using pet jobs (bst, smn and pup) in the traditional "stand off and kill" tactic; for beast that means jugs to call and pet food between CB cool down. It is a viable tactic on some fights, keeping the party/alliance alive. Even if you don't have a full alliance of pet players the rest can also stand off, using their ranged damage and/or magic to contribute to the DD (and thus helping the pets).

Of course I'm pro-beast, it's my favorite job and always has been. As to your GoV comments tho', I beg to differ. I like that I can charm in those areas because it saves me $ and inventory space, not to mention faster kills since I can pet swap instead of having to reward/rest my jug pet at low HP. I love the skill-up there and as I said, as a pup I love the chest drops (even tho' I've had no luck at all on pup attachments); even in today's game economy 800k for a percolator, etc. is going to be pretty sweet for your wallet, and the junk drops are just a sales bonus.

Basically, I was pointing out that outside the battlefield scenarios the current end-game stuff seems to be moving back to charmable content, pretty much like it was before Aby. I haven't tried it, but even VNM has some viable charm fights, now that mobs have been moved. The crab in ordelles for example is surrounded by the saplings which are in the high 80's, or you can grab bettles from the upper tier when they get close enough to the edge. The annoying part is that level appropriate gear has no +charm on it, meaning a need to either carry old stuff for swapping (costing inventory, which I hate) or resigning yourself to taking damage from the occasional mischarm (tame does still work however).

The one clear advantage to jugs is the possibility of killer effects, but strangely I don't see that being used by most current beasts, largely because many seem to have been infected by the DPS parser thing, rather than survival at least cost. Killer effects can be awesome if used properly, and our only gaps are avian and a current aquan. Not sure why SE has never bothered to close that gap in our jug arsenal. The ability to keep your pet from doing something stupid in its TP moves is off-set by the fact SE left us with the weaker TP stuff and stripped or nerfed all the best TP moves from our jugs.

[Xilk]

Uhmmm, you can't charm in voidwatch. It gets you ejected from the fight. I found that out the unpleasant way. you also lose your current pet when the fight starts.

[scaevola]

Yeah, it would be nice if being a bst at cap didn't mean constantly bleeding gil.

This is an issue with the recipes for jugs, not the viability of Charm.

Anyway, what exactly are people asking for, really? The ability to Charm in Abyssea, which would have been worthless before 95 because everything you were fighting was IT anyway?

[Xilk]

This is an issue with the recipes for jugs, not the viability of Charm.

Anyway, what exactly are people asking for, really? The ability to Charm in Abyssea, which would have been worthless before 95 because everything you were fighting was IT anyway?

Visions mobs started at level 72 or 73. They were D/C to a level 75 job. They ranged from DC~IT and I think the pattern was the same with each Abyssea release at each level cap it was introduced at.
BTW, Bst can charm IT. Thats why familiar is so good...

this is NOT an issue of the recipes for jugs. i think the prices are actually quite affordable. They are actually much better than the jugs price/availability at level 75 cap when it was good luck getting anything but Carrie, and only HQ procs on the recipe's allowed you to get the jug at all.

Furthermore, we did not buy nearly so many jugs before the level cap increase anyway BECAUSE CHARMING was the preferred and most viable option in most circumstances.

[scaevola]

Ok, more to the point, what would shifting focus back to Charm from jugs accomplish? What would the impact on the current game be? Ultimately, you're talking about using pets with 8k health here.

The fact that a BST needs to spend 7k on a Dipper Yuly summon every time he wants to actually function is a Real Issue. It doesn't follow, however, that the best way to resolve this problem is going back to Charm when most EM-to-95 mobs, again, have in the neighborhood of 8k health.

I'm sorry but I have a seriously difficult time going along with a suggestion that amounts to "go back to this other way of functioning about which players complained constantly at the time and seriously limited the viability of the job at 75, because it will recapture the spirit of the job and by the way this totally has nothing to do with the fact that such a change would, in the current state of things, literally double the survivability of what is already one of the most durable jobs in the game".

[Granny]

Ok, more to the point, what would shifting focus back to Charm from jugs accomplish? What would the impact on the current game be? Ultimately, you're talking about using pets with 8k health here.

The fact that a BST needs to spend 7k on a Dipper Yuly summon every time he wants to actually function is a Real Issue. It doesn't follow, however, that the best way to resolve this problem is going back to Charm when most EM-to-95 mobs, again, have in the neighborhood of 8k health.

I'm sorry but I have a seriously difficult time going along with a suggestion that amounts to "go back to this other way of functioning about which players complained constantly at the time and seriously limited the viability of the job at 75, because it will recapture the spirit of the job and by the way this totally has nothing to do with the fact that such a change would, in the current state of things, literally double the survivability of what is already one of the most durable jobs in the game".

You were never a bst before 75 cap were you?

[scaevola]

I played BST far enough to decide I didn't like it, for all the reasons players complained about at 75 (too passive, Charm limited job too much in venues without charmable mobs but buffing it was impossible for how gamebreaking it would be to allow players to make one boss mob fight another boss mob for them per BCNM20s, etc.). It was an altogether pointless job that had a somewhat easier time soloing up to the level cap than other jobs in return for not really being able to do anything meaningful or interesting when it got there. This is no longer the case and it's all thanks to the versatility and consistency of the new focus on jugs.

What about my post is wrong?

[Vizardx]

Tbh its not so much that charm is broken as it is that the Games content has changed.
We could never use charm in Assualt/nyzul/sea and the like.
what BST remembered charm for was its ability to solo Open world spawning NMs. Thats whats been taken away.
It wasnt that they broke charm, it's that they've Hidden all the NMs since 80+ inside uncharmable areas. OR locks away ur abilty to taget outside monsters during things like Voidwatch

[Gotterdammerung]

What about my post is wrong?

Would be quicker to say what is right about your post. Giving charm a spot in endgame would be too strong. I am a main bst, I love charm. I would love to keep it around. But i can't kid myself. Throwing 100+ lvl pets with insane HP with back up pets just milling around the map is to strong in any scenario. It is for that reason that i understand SE's move to jug pets. So they can regulate the power of the pets.

Your comment on the cost of pets being a problem was also right. People can argue about this all day. They say "I do alright, i make tons of money so i can afford the cost." Or "I farm and craft them myself so i don't pay that much." Or "the jugs are real strong so they should be expensive." To which i say, It takes time in this game to reach a level where you understand the content well enough to exploit parameters for gil (farm gil). Not everyone has the money. And for those of us who do, why should we pay 30%-50% of our income on supplies? I have been loosely keeping up with how much money i spend on pet items since the 76+ jug update using ffxiah's AH history function. I stopped counting around 40 million because it got to depressing. It sucks to spend some time farming up 8 mil so that you wont have to worry about money for a while, and end up farming again a month later. And for the "crafters" arguement just refer to the "pet shop" thread in this forums. For the "there strong so its worth the money" argument i say What about equivalency? In the old days i bought this argument. Wheel spamming ninja's could do some massive damage if they wanted to literally throw money away. Rangers did boss damage but had a hefty price tag. But that doesnt describe bsts situation. Bst isnt paying lots of money to be above average strength. It IS paying lots of money just to exist.

The rest of your post was opinion, venom and prejudice.

It was the typical "I tried bst (and sucked at it), and i think bst sucks (because you sucked at it).
Or "I saw a bst fighting X once (he sucked), and i think bst sucks (because the guy you saw sucks).

and these 2 lead to "my LS leader doesn't want bst in events because they suck. He bases this opinion on hard facts (hard facts- otherwise known as hearsay, misunderstandings, bad math and faulty logic).

[scaevola]

So, the two things I said about BST that were actual relevant statements and not me saying "no I did not spend my valuable time playing a job that did not interest me and here is why", putting Charm in endgame would be too strong and jugs are too expensive, werecorrect? Great!

I think BST is awesome, just wasn't my thing. Where are you getting that I thought it sucked? Because I realized I wouldn't be able to charm stuff in Salvage? You can't whine about old LS leaders underestimating the potential of Charm when there was pretty much no event other than kings or maybe sky farming (outside?) where you could actually use it.

(ps you say it would be faster to say what i got right than what i got wrong, then spent five times as much text saying what I got right than what I got wrong. you're adorable.)