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  1. #81
    Player Kristal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,552
    Character
    Kristal
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher View Post
    This is good, but you need to do it the main jobs priority is high on the list of options, otherwise this could go badly.

    How it should work (similar to anyway):

    WAR - Weapon > JA > Armour
    WHM - Magic > JA
    RDM - Magic > Weapon

    How we don't want it:

    WAR - Magic > MP > HP
    WHM - Weapon > HP > Weaponskills
    RDM - HP > JA > Armour
    PUP - ability > ranged > magic
    (2)
    "Puppetmaster was our last best hope for peace. It failed.
    Now it's our last best hope.. for victory!"

  2. #82
    Player Cymmina's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Cymmina
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Changes to the Pathos of Alzadaal

    After considering that these imbued items clutter inventory, and the time spent lotting and distributing them made it difficult to focus on strategy, we will be changing the system so that instead of using items to unlock limitations, they will randomly be removed when defeating monsters.

    While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.
    This sounds terrible, bordering on the worst thing I can think of. There are NMs that depend on specific Pathos being active or removed from specific numbers of party members. I'm not looking forward to missing out on one of the Porrogo Madames because the unlocks got randomly distributed to party members, instead of the 3 designated members (groups typically only have 3 people these days anyway, but we'll occasionally have an extra who wants to go because he needs something).

    Also not looking forward to having nothing unlocked after all of the mobs that can drop that unlock have been defeated.

    If it's an atma/abyssite style unlock where if you get the unlock, the whole party gets the unlock, then it won't be so bad. But if it's 1 person randomly gets it with the possibility of no one getting it at all, then this is going to be as hated as the whole Voidwatch loot pool/personal box design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miloki View Post
    The more random FFXI gets, the less strategy matters. We all had Salvage down. You go after the cells you need, you get the number of drops you need and you move on. Now we really have to /pray to the Random Gods to not give the SCH HP unlock before the MNK and before we run outta mobs?
    I know this isn't obvious to most people, but SCH can't use Sublimation without the HP unlock. You'll be better off taking RDM if the system is as random as everyone is assuming it will be.
    (4)
    In the year that I was gone, SCH went from a job no one wanted to a job that gets to use their 2-hour and go sit in the corner. I guess that's progress?

  3. #83
    Player VoiceMemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    526
    Character
    Voicememo
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Changes to the Pathos of Alzadaal

    After considering that these imbued items clutter inventory, and the time spent lotting and distributing them made it difficult to focus on strategy, we will be changing the system so that instead of using items to unlock limitations, they will randomly be removed when defeating monsters.

    While it will no longer be possible to select the player you wish to unlock, we are planning to make adjustments so that the effects removed by defeating monsters will be more than enough to go around.
    I completely disagree with this. You would be changing strategy to luck. I've done salvage since it came out and by now I can call out cells very easily. That is strategy in itself. If you change it that way it seems more like luck over strategy. It will also alienate jobs even more. As it stands now it is possible to take other DD than MNK because they can get weapons unlocked at a later time. If it goes in random and impossible to predict who will get unlocked, it pretty much screams MNK/PUP only, those with native H2H skill.

    I would rather have cells, that take strategy to decide who would unlock first than luck of who gets unlocked. NOT having to rely on gear but skill of a players knowledge of jobs/mp management/how to pull without links is what made salvage challenging. Yes gear helps BUT to be limited by what gear we could use and make the best out of the situation shows the teamwork and the skill of players.

    I find this akin to Nyzul V2, that it's more about luck than skill, luck of how many floors you warp up. Look at how Nyzul V2 alienates jobs to only the highest dd and SCHs.

    Please reconsider it being like current salvage where we the player can decide who to unlock and NOT the game deciding based on random number generation.
    (5)
    Last edited by VoiceMemo; 08-14-2012 at 10:21 PM.

  4. #84
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ru'Lude Gardens!
    Posts
    4,310
    An easy way to fix it is just make the Cells rare, then they cant clog you nearly as easily. Also if you could, make it so where if someone has the pathos removed that the cell goes with then it can not normally fall to said person, only if they lot it.
    (3)

  5. #85
    Player Vivivivi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    554
    Character
    Bananavivi
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    If the drop rate remains the same as the old cells, then I completely love and support this-

    So often when I did salvage it wasn't necessarily that we didn't get enough of a particular cell to unlock the right abilities for everyone, but more so that people tossed cells they didn't need and/or we killed mobs so fast that stuff fell to the floor.
    (2)

  6. #86
    Player Daniel_Hatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    2,577
    Character
    Alvian
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 12
    Quote Originally Posted by Demon6324236 View Post
    An easy way to fix it is just make the Cells rare, then they cant clog you nearly as easily. Also if you could, make it so where if someone has the pathos removed that the cell goes with then it can not normally fall to said person, only if they lot it.
    It still takes 10+ spaces. Short of making them like the TEMP items (where they are separate from inventory), it wont work.
    (2)
    Last edited by Daniel_Hatcher; 08-15-2012 at 04:34 AM.

  7. #87
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    REALLY depends on how they implement it. If it's kill 1 mob and there is a high chance that everyone gets that pathos unlocked, then it's great. If it's kill 1 mob and someone might get a random pathos unlocked, then it's beyond horrible.

    The first encourages groups to focus on getting gear, the second encourages people to bring as few as possible to ensure the least number of people to divide random pathos unlocks on.

    Camate can we get clarification? If it's randomly one member then that is absolutely beyond horrible and will result in players not getting key pathos's removed.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  8. #88
    Community Rep Camate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,712
    Good morning!

    As there are quite a few questions in regards to how the new unlocking system will work, I’d like to explain about it just a bit more.

    Unlocking System Changes

    As mentioned in my previous post, the first objective of this is to relieve the stress related to worrying about cells so that everyone can enjoy this content more. This is why we are only removing the aspect where you need to use items to unlock limitations, but the process of defeating monsters in order to remove the limitations will not change.

    The trends for unlocking by each area and each monster will carry over, so think of it as the same flow as in the past when it comes to the order of defeating monsters and all the tricks to unlock Pathos efficiently.

    Who Will Be Unlocked

    I think the biggest concern at the moment is that by unlocking taking place at random, it will no longer be possible to formulate strategies around which jobs and players get unlocked first. The original Salvage had cases where certain areas would only yield a certain amount of cells, or if cells were not obtained at the right moment you would have to wait a while to get them again, making it so each cell was carefully used.

    For the higher tier expansion, the direction will be changing quite a bit, and as long as you don’t have severely bad luck, we would like to make it so that it will be possible to fully unlock all limitations. With that said, we will be making adjustments to the number of monsters and the unlocking rate so that the pace of unlocking is not so slow that it makes it not possible to get stuff done.

    *We are currently looking into a similar treasure chest that appears upon entry like the original Salvage, and we are thinking to make it so players can choose who will be unlocked.
    (14)
    Devin "Camate" Casadey - Community Team

  9. #89
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ru'Lude Gardens!
    Posts
    4,310
    That luck has anything to do with what was once a strategic part of this event is what saddens me Camate. I like strategy more than luck. ;;
    (20)

  10. #90
    Player Kalilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    179
    I like the idea of having the treasure chest at the start. It ensures that the base requirements are fulfilled to complete the run while the new system takes over.
    (4)

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