Bard ~ Job Manifesto

[Jackalman]

There's some really silly discussion going on here. I'm not sure I understand where some people are coming from. I'm a career Bard and have been for 8 years now. I want nothing more than to see meaningful adjustments and additions to the job. It seems to me that certain people posting here just don't know that much about the job.

Daurdabla does affect song potency (through singing and string skill) and duration (read the description, seriously). However, it's still stupid to cast elegy without using an elegy instrument (Syrinx), or lullaby without using a lullaby instrument (Pan's Horn), so yes, using Daurdabla to debuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

People are still so down on string skill. Yes, wind skill has more landing accuracy than string skill. Yes, we have known this for 8+ years. However, if you can't land a song on a mob with a string instrument, there is something wrong with you. Landing elegy more easily with a level 1 flute than Daurdabla with +40 skill? Really? Yes, I understand sarcasm, but you seem ignorant about string skill. Maybe people complaining about song range in this thread should look into string skill, since that's its advantage over wind skill. Before the level cap increase, I preferred using harps for finale and finale, and it was almost never a problem. With the recent merit point additions, I now have fully meritted string skill in addition to my fully meritted singing and wind skill. I also have a macro set for full string+ gear. I don't use it often, but it's there.

People honestly still think that there is NEVER a better song combination than 2x March? Despite higher tiers of other songs and the incredibly useful Scherzo, you guys still agree that I may as well have only bought/quested ballads and marches? Awesome, I want you in my endgame shell. (Told you I understand sarcasm.)

Still, there were some great ideas posted here. When pianissimo was first mentioned as a possible update, I expected fortissimo to naturally follow (as others posted, it would turn a single target effect into an AOE effect. I personally think SE could even implement it as an effect that turns a single-party song into a full-alliance song if they were to give it a long recast time so as to not make it overpowered). I'm surprised it never materialized in some form. By the way, doesn't anyone remember that etudes were originally AOE buffs and SE changed them like 7 years ago to be single-target? Making them AOE again is really not a good idea, but implementing fortissimo with them in mind (as others here have pointed out) makes good sense.

I've also always wanted SE to make those buff resistance songs more useful. My idea is for them to allow them (and only them) as a 3rd song buff. They may still get ignored, but they could be potentially useful. However, using them in place of any of our normal songs is ridiculous. There are even 2 tiers of Operetta (silence resistance). Hell, they're even stackable! Seriously, wtf is that about?

I personally don't think Massacre Elegy should be Gjallarhorn-only, but I wouldn't complain if they did that. It would be a nice specific stat for relic owners. I just like the idea more of making it obtainable through a quest or series of quests like the original AF set. It shouldn't be easy to obtain, but I don't think it needs to be as difficult as making and upgrading a relic.

We should definitely be getting another march tier soon. We got new tiers of everything else; it just makes sense. If SE won't do it because of haste caps, then they need to rethink the haste caps. Same deal on Horde Lullaby II. It's just time for it.

I really can't get that excited about a magic defense song. It will be nice to have, and I'll probably use it on every mob right after I elegy it, but it's such a small thing, and really something we just should have had a long time ago. SE should be giving us more than 1 new offensive song and (probably) new tiers of existing songs. Whenever they add rolls to COR, they get brand new things. I want a regain song or a TH song or a MATT buff or really just anything new. They added Scherzo and it's amazing -- we need more new things to get excited about.

We'll probably get Foe's Requiem VIII in the next update. I normally wouldn't even care, but SE is promising to revamp it, so here's hoping. How ridiculous is it that a BRD/WHM can land Dia II easily on a mob but can't land Requiem VII on the same mob? This is so long overdue, but I'm glad SE finally noticed.

Retsujo posted an idea to cast songs outside of the party. I like this idea. Right now, especially with song duration+ gear, a BRD can cast 2-3 sets of songs, debuff the mob, throw in a few cures, and still have a bunch of downtime. What if that BRD could pop a new ability and sing single-target etudes/preludes on alliance members not in the party? It would be a good use of time and is probably easy for SE to implement.

I should post again soon with ideas I have for the job. I haven't posted here before despite reading the threads often and following the dev posts closely. I'm sure it therefore seems pretty lame to people reading this that I was complaining about other people's posts. However, I'm not here to criticize. I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

[Retsujo]

I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

Unfortunately a lot of people grow with a job doing mostly one thing with it and get no real opportunities to learn the "waterfalls" for what the job's worth so they just stick to "the rivers and the lakes" that they're used to.

I apologize for the TLC reference :3

[Flionheart]

I'm not a fan of the idea that M.Elegy will be a Ghorn only song, but I understand it I guess.

I hope there's an alternative way to get it, like the fake relics with the WS if that's the case.

Also agree completely with what Jackalman said.

Simply put, BRD needs more abilities, and preferably more songs that assist Mages. It's bad when you don't need Ballads due to Atma, so you resort to marching the mages, there should be a fast cast song imo.

I really hope you're not going to keep BRD the way it is at the moment, because in reality it's a pretty boring job how it stands. I personally love the job and I have done since I've levelled it, but I feel like I could be playing many other roles at the same time, and that's a bad thing. BRD was always about being busy and keeping on top of things, but it really doesn't feel like that any more. You buff the DD (And mages if they require it, which is rarely), Debuff the mob... and then become a surrogate WHM for a minute or so, then re-apply buffs/debuffs.

I want to be changing my songs depending on the situation (Which does happen occasionally with Scherzo and carols).

I want to feel like buffing the mages is as much of a priority as buffing the DD.

I want BRD to become hectic.

[Vagrua]

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

No problem a simple macro can't fix.

[Flionheart]

I honestly don't think AOEing prelude is the biggest concern with the job really. Maybe it's just me, but I haven't partied with a ranger lately, let alone more than one. And even if I did, most of them prefer minuet.

[Creelo]

There's some really silly discussion going on here. I'm not sure I understand where some people are coming from. I'm a career Bard and have been for 8 years now. I want nothing more than to see meaningful adjustments and additions to the job. It seems to me that certain people posting here just don't know that much about the job.

Daurdabla does affect song potency (through singing and string skill) and duration (read the description, seriously). However, it's still stupid to cast elegy without using an elegy instrument (Syrinx), or lullaby without using a lullaby instrument (Pan's Horn), so yes, using Daurdabla to debuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Do you think that the potency of Debuffs is affected by Skill?

It's not. It only affects Resist rates.

Do you think that "Increases Song Effect Duration" affects the duration of Debuffs?

It doesn't. It only affects Buff Songs, similar to AF3 Neck, AF3+1/2 Body, and Carnwenhan.

That part of your post implies that you were regarding using Debuffs with a Daurdabla. If you don't actually know what Skill or "Increases Song Effect Duration" actually does for Debuffs, don't post about it, be wrong, and then proceed call the OP ignorant in the next section below...

People are still so down on string skill. Yes, wind skill has more landing accuracy than string skill. Yes, we have known this for 8+ years. However, if you can't land a song on a mob with a string instrument, there is something wrong with you. Landing elegy more easily with a level 1 flute than Daurdabla with +40 skill? Really? Yes, I understand sarcasm, but you seem ignorant about string skill. Maybe people complaining about song range in this thread should look into string skill, since that's its advantage over wind skill. Before the level cap increase, I preferred using harps for finale and finale, and it was almost never a problem. With the recent merit point additions, I now have fully meritted string skill in addition to my fully meritted singing and wind skill. I also have a macro set for full string+ gear. I don't use it often, but it's there.

First bolded statement is irrelevant. You shouldn't be debuffing with Elegy using a String Instrument anyways. Only acceptable debuff with Stringed is Horde Lullaby and possibly Threnody with Sorrowful Harp (although it's hardly worth it for Sorrowful Harp's case and definitely isn't as accurate as a Piccolo +1.)

Yes, +40 Skill is quite a lot, but a Wind-based Instrument will probably still beat it out, or at least match it on resist rate. Iirc, Debuff instruments like Lullaby +2 only add to duration and potency, not resist rate. (Ex: Nursemaid's Harp vs. Mary's Horn back in the day for Foe Lullaby) You cannot tell me the gap in resist rate/half resists/etc. with a Wind Instrument and a String Instrument isn't small when debuffing anything worth a crap. I'm sorry, you just can't. <.<

In the end, it's all a pointless endeavor anyways because you won't be debuffing with Daurdabla...

Also, "finale and finale"?

Underlined Portion: No one cares, first of all. <.< And a "String gear set" is literally like... 2 extra Pieces compared to Wind: String Torque and Marduk's Crackows... Other than possibly using it for String Debuffs, there is no point for this. The only reason why you may need the Skill is if it can bump you up another tier in range on Chocobo Mazurka. (Maybe with Ballad III if you need the range, but that's hardly needed and usually the opposite x.x)

I personally don't think Massacre Elegy should be Gjallarhorn-only, but I wouldn't complain if they did that. It would be a nice specific stat for relic owners. I just like the idea more of making it obtainable through a quest or series of quests like the original AF set. It shouldn't be easy to obtain, but I don't think it needs to be as difficult as making and upgrading a relic.

Massacre Elegy is 100% Slow. Even if SE lowers that to 75% for Players, that's just insane. Through a quest, every single Brd out there could get it and become such an overpowered job. I'm sure SE would have to make the most annoying quest to even let this happen on a fair scale (worse than Black Belt in its current state <.<).

I'd much rather see this as an exclusive song to Gjallarhorn. Something to truly separate a Gjallarhorn Brd from a regular Brd. Such power should only be deserved for the Bards (and their Linkshells) who have put themselves through the trouble of getting a Gjallarhorn and putting it through its trials (granted the Trials are pretty easy).

We should definitely be getting another march tier soon. We got new tiers of everything else; it just makes sense. If SE won't do it because of haste caps, then they need to rethink the haste caps. Same deal on Horde Lullaby II. It's just time for it.

For those who haven't seen, a song dat was added in the latest Dat Mining vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYzNO...layer_embedded

Found around the 2min mark. Looks to highly be a Third Tier of March, hopefully to be available to players. Would be really shocked if it wasn't since it's as you say "Just makes sense." It won't change the Haste Cap or anything though... Would just allow for you to hit the magical haste cap more easily. And I agree with you and the others, Horde Lullaby II definitely needs to be coming too! >.<

SE should be giving us more than 1 new offensive song and (probably) new tiers of existing songs. Whenever they add rolls to COR, they get brand new things. I want a regain song or a TH song or a MATT buff or really just anything new. They added Scherzo and it's amazing -- we need more new things to get excited about.

Agree 100%. That's the one thing that always makes me a little jealous of Cor Buffs, they're all so different and pretty original. They still lack haste, and always will, but still... :/

I'm sure it therefore seems pretty lame to people reading this that I was complaining about other people's posts. However, I'm not here to criticize. I just love BRD and want people to properly understand it; and I want SE to give us some new toys to make our jobs more fun. ^^

I'm in the exact same boat; I wouldn't make such long posts if I wasn't. But I will criticize your own post if you dare to call me ignorant of Bard. Especially when your own post is riddled with bits of wrong info and silly logic.

[detlef]

As stated, Daurdabla is strictly a buffing instrument and really shouldn't ever be used for debuffs. I was very disappointed when I realized that I couldn't use it for horde but eh, what're you gonna do. I do like the freedom of a third song, which has allowed me to use scherzo, carols, minuets, madrigals, or whatever the situation calls for.

Aegis got a big boost the last update. Level 90 relics also got significant weapon skill damage boosts. As a Ghorn owner I'd be pretty happy with an exclusive song to separate the instrument from the other +3 instruments. If it's Massacre Elegy, I would be thrilled.

[Schrute]

Hi, make a magic attack song(s). We can already give haste songs and attack songs that work for attack and ranged attack, let us play some most excellent tunes for our beloved nukers of the world. Or here is an idea, make it so minuets affect magic attack tooooooo O-O. I like this idea, I play Bard a lot and would love to play more than refresh songs, marches, etudes, and elegy. I WANT TO BE THE DJ HERO ME PLOZ

[Flionheart]

There needs to be more mage friendly songs. Ballads only gets a bit boring. You want Mages to be excited about having a BRD.

[Kit_Katz]

We will look into this. In regards to Prelude though, depending on the number of party members that have ranged attacks, it might get pretty crazy having to use Pianissimo each time. Is that going to be a problem?

Positioning alleviates this problem and even if not, it would be better to Pianissimo one RNG than Prelude 5.