Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.

[RAIST]

08/03/2011 DEBIT C&C CLICKANDBUY INTL LTDAKRON OH $13.95
08/03/2011 FEE C&C CLICKANDBUY INTLFOREIGN TRANSACTION FEE $0.42

You were charged an international processing fee because ClickAndBuy is EU-based. US customers are international.

At first glance it appears the transactions were actually conducted IN THE US (in the players own state even)--and thus should not be subject to an INTERNATIONAL TRANSACTION FEE. That could just be something wonky in the bank's notation though. It could be that the fee was charged by the centralized branch in Akron for the International Transaction wtih C&B. So that may actually be your Bank's fee and not C&B.

Either way...the bigger point is it is costing more to conduct the same business with SE for the same contracted price and via the players' same payment instrument, simple because they have been forced out of the previous method with no known reason for having that method removed for some while it remains for others--simply because they live in different parts of the world.

[Lahan]

My bank does currency conversion for free. I have 1st hand experience with this in a trip to Canada. I was told by them to just use the card and the bank does all conversions no charge. I have never had anything bounce to this Akron place before. I have bought plenty of things online both with and without PayPal as well.

[Lahan]

I just want to follow up with you guys to repair any confusion I may have cause.

I apparently did make a ClickandBuy account, but it seemed to have all be done within the SE account web page and used existing information from my SE account. I did not put in any new information. I must have really not been paying much attention, but it really was incredibly easy. I'll wait to complain about ClickandBuy when/if I ever have a problem with them.

I did this too.

AND I called the number for them and was on hold with the muzak for 1:20:00 before i gave up.

[Byrth]

At first glance it appears the transactions were actually conducted IN THE US (in the players own state even)--and thus should not be subject to an INTERNATIONAL TRANSACTION FEE. That could just be something wonky in the bank's notation though. It could be that the fee was charged by the centralized branch in Akron for the International Transaction wtih C&B.

I think, in order to convert currency from one nation to another, banks have to have some representative body in each nation. So ClickAndBuy US takes your dollars and exchanges them for Euros/Pounds that it uses to pay ClickAndBuy EU. International economics and rules are weird.

[RAIST]

My bank does currency conversion for free. I have 1st hand experience with this in a trip to Canada. I was told by them to just use the card and the bank does all conversions no charge. I have never had anything bounce to this Akron place before. I have bought plenty of things online both with and without PayPal as well.

Yeah, I ran into that when I went to Montreal years ago too. It was weird to see the statement come in and see the adjusted amounts for the exchange--prices were so close, it was like.... why did they even bother shifitng it for pennies on the dollar? Who knows why they make some of the determinations they do--With Canada it may be because they are bordering nations and such--tourists crossing the Falls and what not could probly lead to some unnecessary bad PR or something, so they just take care of it on their own dime to save face.

Regardless of the why....the symptom is the same. We were led to believe we may be able to pay SE with no additional cost incurred if we had a supported CC, only to find that it is not necessarily true. SE only hinted there may be something different per region at the very end of their notice:

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...527&id=20&la=1

- Payment methods will differ depending on the region of the Square Enix account.

- The currency of fees (i.e. monthly subscription fee, World Transfer Service fee,fee for purchasing registration codes, etc.) will be based on the region for the Square Enix account

That second line implies that even if you had to resort to an alternate method of payment, the transactioin would be done in the currency accepted in your region, so as to not incur any additional fees for processing. They didn't even address the issue of International Transaction fees, which seems to imply it was a non-issue as well.

Nowhere in that announcement did they state specifically that the direct pay method would be dropped for all non-JP regions--they even implied it would continue to be offered at one point:

* Payment Methods:

Square Enix Crysta (http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/), debit cards, and credit cards will be viable payment methods after ID transfer. Debit and credit cards must support personal authentication services (such as 3D Secure) in order to be used.

* Logging into PlayOnline after the Transition

Certain customers may be required to register their Square Enix account and PlayOnline ID before logging into PlayOnline.



* Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: Can credit cards without personal authentication services (such as 3-D secure) be used?

A: Cards without personal authentication services, such as 3-D secure, can make payments using ClickandBuy International Ltd. and Ultimate Game Card® via PlaySpan, Inc.

3-D secure will be required only for cards that support and have been set up with it.

Just looks more and more like they didn't seriously research the issue and just what kind of impact it may have on their customers. They just saw a company that could take our credit cards for less cost and/or effort and just rolled with it without REALLY looking into the company's history or problematic policies.

[Lahan]

She (my bank lady) told me it would be free conversions anywhere I went that took Visa/Mastercard. That being said I cant afford to fly to London or Japan to test it! I would love to though...

(I am trying to read through all of this massive thread I did see the "test bill" that CNB did and it just disappeared after an hourish but this .42 has been there for days. I will report back if it gets refunded but from what I am reading it will most likely not)

[Lahan]

Checked billing statement, I was charged 42 cent "International Transaction Fee". Which is not much, but it is lame.

I am in the USA and just looked at my credit card account to pay it and found not just my normal monthly FFXI charge but a 2nd charge from Click & buy labelled "International Processing Fee"

I am trying to get to the bottom of this. Can ether of you two do me a favor please, if you even come back to read this thread.
1) go to your click and buy and tell me if it lists the .42 under the fee column. (it does not list it on mine)
2) did you verify the card? (I did not)

-EDIT
Ok I just talked to the 1-800 customer service for my bank. She said that fee is from the bank. I have to go to my local branch to talk to them about why they charged me when they told me the do not.

I still would like to have the above two questions answered from one or both of you just to give every one else reading this more information.

[Kit_Katz]

While I agree and dislike the new system, when making a "petition" you could at least make your post professional and easy to read. If it was it would be much easier for the community to stand behind and for the Devs to take seriously.

Regardless of that, I dislike using click&Buy and have more of a virulent hatred for the "Crysta" system, most notably the fact that Square Enix refuses to allow its customers to pay them an exact amount and instead force them to overpay and leave extra on their balance. This is a tricky con-job way to "entice" customers to spend more money than they wish to on any useless other thing Square Enix decides to introduce for the system. Even if the customer does not choose to use the extra Crysta on their account I have not heard of any way to retrieve said funds, meaning that the customer using the Crysta system does in fact pay more for their monthly bill because the money value of that Crysta already belongs to Square Enix and you are not getting it back.

On the other hand, if this system stops the rampant double charging and frivolous content ID termination that was so prevalent for unlucky customers like myself in the past, it may yet be a minor improvement.

[NkaiMoonwatyr]

Found this on the C&B web last night:

17. Fee table
Fee
See * for Accounts in non-GBP, EUR or USD currencies
Account Opening Fee This fee is payable for opening an Account.
Free Payment Fee
This fee is payable for processing certain payment transactions to or from Your Account.
.... skipped a bunch of stuff
Currency Exchange Fee Where We are required to exchange currency in order to process Your transactions, We will apply this fee to the amount of Your monetary value that is converted.
5.9%
.... skipped a bunch more stuff
* Fees in non GBP, EUR or USD currencies: Where Your Account is in a currency other than GBP, EUR or USD, You will be charged fees in the currency of Your Account that are materially equivalent in value to the fees in EUR set out in this fee table. The fees in non GBP, EUR or USD currencies will be calculated by Us to this effect on an interim basis with reference to prevailing market exchange rates. The fees as calculated will be notified and recorded in the currency of Your Account.

So... essentially they are saying that they deal in US currency... but then they turn around charge us a conversion fee? Why do they need to convert it if they already state that they accept it as a standard currency? How is that even legal?

[RAIST]

Found this on the C&B web last night:

So... essentially they are saying that they deal in US currency... but then they turn around charge us a conversion fee? Why do they need to convert it if they already state that they accept it as a standard currency? How is that even legal?

The "International Transaction Fee" from your bank is a fee charged simply because of doing commerce directly with an out of country merchant. Previously, SE was processing credit card charges through regional processors linked to their regional offices, so those fees were not being charged. Now a merchant overseas is posting a payment directly from your bank and is tripping that fee.

Before:
US based customer, US based processer, requesting to transfer funds to a US based merchant account

After:
a UK merchant asking for funds from a US based customer's bank to be deposited into a UK based merchant account

The new method trips up an international commerce flag, and you get slapped with the fee.