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  1. #1
    Player Razushu's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    819
    Character
    Razushu
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99

    Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

    Quote Originally Posted by SQUARE ENIX
    Vision
    Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies

    We intend to make it easier for avatars to wreak havoc upon enemies, but also emphasize how vital the act of managing the source of their magical powers is to summoners.

    Example Adjustments

    A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts.
    Introducing the avatars Cait Sith and Atomos.
    So it seems SE has decided how it wants Summoner to be played, and where they're planning to take it. It's fairly clear that SE wants us to rely on our avatars, while we manage our MP. As such topics of discussion like, SMN melee, spirits, and buffing the master(in any way) are probably going to get ignored(and not just because they tend to turn into flame wars). An ignored thread gets us nowhere.

    With that in mind, I would like to start a discussion, in hopes of it providing feedback to SE and maybe getting some from them. I'd like to leave the bickering out of this thread in hopes of building a thread that SE may actually read and respond to. WE all know this job needs a buff, and I'm hoping the people who come here love the job as much as me, and as such will help me start a reasonable discourse.

    What I want to discuss is, Summoner present and future in line with SE's vision for the job. I would like it if this discussion was civil, thought out and productive, mainly concerning buffs to avatars and concerning avatars(as this seems to be the focus of any upcoming update to SMN).

    SE has given us a great starting point, by proclaiming a desire to fix Blood Pact delay. However while this could be the biggest concern for Summoners, there are still things like Ward potency and Avatar DPS that could use addressing. Feel free to suggest or critique anything that comes to mind in this regard, but keep in mind the goal here is to be heard by SE. So please no off topic flaming or posts, and please no SE bashing here.

    If you want to discuss melee or spirits, take it somewhere else, SE doesn't seem to be interested in them right now. And as it stands there's enough threads concerning them.

    My apologies for the Wall o' Text introduction.

    Tl'DR - Discussion about SMN in line with SE's vison in hopes of them reading/responding. Please leave other avenues of thought to be explored in the other threads it's already happening in.

    And now on with the Discussion.

    SE is finally addressing the Blood Pact delay issue, they seem to have learned from past missteps in buffing SMN. Since going past 75 cap SE have been quite kind to SMN, and as such it's looking like the upcoming update will be a genuine buff to us. Plus new avatars(bonus!). I'm hoping the Blood Pact delay ability is a stance, that gives a 25% reduction in delay that adds 25% to the cost of the Blood Pact. I would also like to see an adjustment to ward potency, they have fallen further behind since 75 cap.

    SQUARE ENIX's replies:

    Quote Originally Posted by Camate
    First off, thanks for all the opinions thus far, and we wanted to let you know that we passed them to the supervisor in charge of the upcoming changes and had him take a look.

    Please understand that we cannot answer all of your questions in one post and some answers may be vague, because this is all content that is still under development.

    Please bear with us as we will continue posting about this and other jobs!

    ※I believe there are a lot of players who are interested in the effects and duration of “Blood Pact” so I plan on addressing it in the follow-up post. (I understand that some of you may be disappointed about this, but please be a little patient!)

    Please provide specific details on the effects of “a new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts.”
    For example, we are thinking about something like, “reset the recast time by expending a set amount of MP.” As we have stated in the threads for other jobs, this is just one example.

    There is a possibility of the effects being changed drastically, so please keep posting your feedback.

    I would like Blood Pacts to be changed to the charge format.
    This would drastically change the operation of Blood Pacts, so we have no plans of making this change. We plan on adjusting the timing of Blood Pacts by adding an ability that shortens the recast time.

    Is it possible to interlock the avatar’s attacks with the summoner’s weapon skills (as in Wyvern’s breath)?
    Being able to issue commands to avatars is a unique advantage for summoners, so it is best to initiate avatar attacks through the summoner’s commands.

    I would like the pet command “Stay” to be added.
    We have no plans to add the “Stay” command outside of beastmasters.

    I would like unique stats added to each avatar, such as increased attack for Ifrit and increased evasion for Garuda.
    By implementing different stats for each avatar, we are afraid certain avatars will be selected disproportionately frequently and the variance of avatars will be limited. There is a possibility of being able to alter the stats of avatars by equipping gear, but basically we would like avatars to be chosen based on their elements.
    I would like En/Spike effects added to avatars.
    This might be good. We will think about this.

    I would like the elemental resistances that avatars have to been given to party members.
    This is pretty similar to Avatar’s Favor. What about adding this effect through merit points?

    Any possibility you can enhance the Evoker’s Ring?
    If you have to surpass a challenging quest, then we will look into it. Simply just enhancing it would be a bit hard to justify.

    Let summoners use the weapon skills for staff that can only be used by specific jobs/support jobs.
    We understand how you feel. We received similar requests for other jobs/weapon skills and we will be looking into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate
    We got a chance to speak to the main summoner himself on the topic of Blood Pacts.

    • MP Consumption

    The MP cost for Blood Pact: Ward abilities are set rather high because the effects they grant are AoE; however, they are designed to elicit a higher level of benefit when used to support a party.

    • Effect duration

    As we’re sure you’re aware, depending on the level of your summoning skill, various enhancement bonuses are added to your Blood Pacts. These bonuses make it so ultimately you will see a very noticeable difference in effect duration when compared to other magic spells and abilities. If your skill isn’t fully leveled and you feel that the duration is too short, we recommend raising it up as you will experience quite a significant increase. With the upcoming level cap increase we will be extending the effect duration even further.

    • Effect

    In regards to magic/abilities that elicit a similar effect to Blood Pacts, we believe that Blood Pacts have significantly high stats, effect duration included. However, with the level cap increase from 75 to 90, these stats have increased further and we would like to look into adjusting the areas where the balance is off. Please continue let us know your feedback especially for the Blood Pacts you feel need adjustments.
    (3)
    Last edited by Razushu; 08-16-2011 at 04:08 AM.

    Summoner [suhm-uhn-er]

    1. Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies.
    2. Not a melee

  2. #2
    Player Tsukino_Kaji's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    4,029
    Character
    Tsukinokaji
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    They forgot to add the new melee abilities people have been asking for.

    Even if it was triple the cost and only a 25% reduction in recast, the bloddpact idea is gold.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player Korpg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    2,196
    Character
    Kingnobody
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 94
    Not only am I looking forward for the new ability and the new avatars, I'm also looking forward to the new blood pacts.

    We all know that Ramuh will get his final BP:W come 91, but what about actual damaging BPs? Merited BPs are great, but we can use a little more damage both inside and outside of Abyssea.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player Razushu's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    819
    Character
    Razushu
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji View Post
    They forgot to add the new melee abilities people have been asking for.

    Even if it was triple the cost and only a 25% reduction in recast, the bloddpact idea is gold.
    Honestly I'm hoping the keep on the current course, and what ever the ability is will be at a reasonable cost.
    (0)

    Summoner [suhm-uhn-er]

    1. Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies.
    2. Not a melee

  5. #5
    Player Razushu's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    Character
    Razushu
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Korpg View Post
    Not only am I looking forward for the new ability and the new avatars, I'm also looking forward to the new blood pacts.

    We all know that Ramuh will get his final BP:W come 91, but what about actual damaging BPs? Merited BPs are great, but we can use a little more damage both inside and outside of Abyssea.
    Depending on how the new ability performs, new Rages might be able to wait a little more. Probably get new Rages at 95, but 2-3 Predator Claws a minute might help us hold out a little longer for them.
    (0)

    Summoner [suhm-uhn-er]

    1. Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies.
    2. Not a melee

  6. #6
    Player Leonlionheart's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Jeuno
    Posts
    1,769
    Character
    Leonlionheart
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 95
    Quote Originally Posted by Korpg View Post
    Not only am I looking forward for the new ability and the new avatars, I'm also looking forward to the new blood pacts.

    We all know that Ramuh will get his final BP:W come 91, but what about actual damaging BPs? Merited BPs are great, but we can use a little more damage both inside and outside of Abyssea.
    I think, and this is a long LONG shot, that they should have final tier BP's that don't comply with BP Rage or BP Ward.

    Longer Recast on this one category, but having it separated would be awesome.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player Razushu's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    Character
    Razushu
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonlionheart View Post
    I think, and this is a long LONG shot, that they should have final tier BP's that don't comply with BP Rage or BP Ward.

    Longer Recast on this one category, but having it separated would be awesome.
    That would be great, something that worked like an Astral Flow Pact on a 5(possibly) minute timer.
    (0)

    Summoner [suhm-uhn-er]

    1. Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies.
    2. Not a melee

  8. #8
    Player Leonlionheart's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Jeuno
    Posts
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    Character
    Leonlionheart
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 95
    Quote Originally Posted by Razushu View Post
    That would be great, something that worked like an Astral Flow Pact on a 5(possibly) minute timer.
    I don't think you could call that OP.

    Also making another Haste that stacks with Haste(Spell) is hard to argue with... BRD is the only other one (Other than DRG 2hour and items) that has one.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Razushu's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    819
    Character
    Razushu
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonlionheart View Post
    I don't think you could call that OP.

    Also making another Haste that stacks with Haste(Spell) is hard to argue with... BRD is the only other one (Other than DRG 2hour and items) that has one.
    Why stop at haste they could change, the effects of our Blood Pacts from magical, to a new category, spereate from everything else.
    (1)

    Summoner [suhm-uhn-er]

    1. Mystics who conjure avatars to fight by their sides, then sit back and enjoy the show while paying close attention to their MP as their minions deliver devastating blows to adversaries and provide aid to allies.
    2. Not a melee

  10. #10
    Player Feliciaa's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    118
    Character
    Feliciaa
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 90
    More unique buffs to smn would be a great start. Even killing the negative effects on avatar favor and extending the range would help make it a more wanted job.

    Smn has some really decent favors and buffs but they are either really weak for 90s or not linked with garuda.
    (1)

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